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  1. #91
    Player
    Yhisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    413
    Character
    Susubi Subi
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Actually, when healing in any content I feel there is a huge disconnect between the partner co- healer

    Many times I feel we have "too much" to deal with mechanics in game that it forces one of the healers to legit just 1 button spam until they bored in their face

    I feel there is an "overlap" between healers which makes it boring ATM due to similar skills

    but in all serious soo many times I have been bored out of my face due to a "greedy" healer , which ultimate just forces the co healer to "DPS" more and turn zombified until boss is dead, yeah u may "throw" a ogcd for an incoming mechanic to "help" but u go back spamming 111111111 until the next mechanic happens

    I played all healers and at the moment WHM is the least fun out of the 3, scholar u still require to do "some" thinking and so does ast, but whm it's either just do damage, press heal, back to damage

    With scholar u get to scream at Ur fairy because it's not working as intended, as astro u can scream at Ur cards because rng still exists and u have to "plan" Ur skills ahead of time

    Whm u just press them and Ur done, and I never liked this on whm at all, and the lilies sucks sooo much, but the blood lily nuke is ok I suppose
    (0)

  2. #92
    Player
    Yhisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    413
    Character
    Susubi Subi
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    To fix this problem

    They need to redesign WHM , because it is the "core" problem why healing is sooo boring

    For example benediction forces a smash 1111111 since it heals the target to full hp, and adds another 6+ sec if the tank used a invulnerable skill, so both healers just spam damage more , so if the tank is very good, u legit just allowed both healers to smash 11111 for 15+ seconds

    In dungeon u can legit just play whm with just benediction + holy spam.....and just use lilies between pulls, if your tank is decent

    So by my deduction WHM is the problem due to its overpowering upfront healing

    They need to ditch the "pure" healing and legit redesign whm to use elements to heal via air/water/earth

    Earth = damage reduction/shields etc

    Air = movement speed /deflection etc

    Water = healing interactions that isn't "burst"

    These are spitball ideas, but u kinda understand what I'm getting at, whm needs to turn into a "support" healer like astrologian , but base around "elements" or "elementals" design

    So in raids u will have

    1 support healer
    1 shield healer

    Support healer will be more for "buffs" "regens" "manipulation" type of playstyle

    Shield healer be more for "protection" or "nullify" damage

    This will in return make ALL healers feel good instead of "burst heal" u legit have to work together with Ur co- healer to overcome mechanics instead of "press X ability to heal Y mechanic, and wait"

    It be more of

    Support healer reduce "next" mechanic damage, shield healer "protects" aswell, the group takes damage, now both healers can bring everyone back up to "safe" levels before next mechanic comes up
    (0)

  3. #93
    Player
    QooEr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    835
    Character
    Qoo Er
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    the problem isnt how strong the kits are, but how little damage everything deals, even in savage. to put it into perspective, Sigmascape 8 savage, you know, a fight from Stormblood, did similar damage to players as fights in Eden's verse savage a whole expansion later.
    (1)

  4. #94
    Player
    Ramesses's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Sharlayan
    Posts
    1,393
    Character
    Prince Nuada
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 70
    Live letter expectations:
    • Reaper gameplay
    • More Reaper gameplay
    • Reaper gameplay in end game content
    • How to level Reaper from 70 to 90 in one day so you can indulge in end game content
    • Where to start grinding for tomes (yet again) once you arrive Sharlayan -- expect slight changes to crafting as well?
    • More information on Island Santuary and how it hopes to alleviate the housing problem
    • Announcing Menesius' armour and Uncle Emet's hairstyle on the Mog Station (lovely artwork by Dodorimo)-- Executive Director Yoshida-san-- can you please make this happen?

    (0)
    Last edited by Ramesses; 09-07-2021 at 10:24 AM.
    "After ten years, finally headed to Sharlayan... absolutely stoked"


  5. #95
    Player
    GrimGale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,113
    Character
    Grim Gaelasch
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    If we're splitting healers into two cathegories, does that mean Shield Healers no longer compete against Pure healers for a spot in a Full party?

    Sage competes against Scholar for the shield healer spot and White Mage competes agaisnt Astrologian for the pure healer spot.

    That opens for more daring healing design synergies between Pure and Shield healers.

    This also means SCH and WHM are no longer enemies.
    (1)

  6. #96
    Player
    Crushnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Jets Down
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by GrimGale View Post
    If we're splitting healers into two cathegories, does that mean Shield Healers no longer compete against Pure healers for a spot in a Full party?

    Sage competes against Scholar for the shield healer spot and White Mage competes agaisnt Astrologian for the pure healer spot.

    That opens for more daring healing design synergies between Pure and Shield healers.

    This also means SCH and WHM are no longer enemies.
    That is probably their intention but design WILL run counter intuitive to this intention just like with ShB healer design vs intention(we have been dpsing more than ever before in this expansion yet their intent was to make us more heal focused so yeah it backfired) for a few reasons:

    1. Every healer and any combo of healers must be able to complete all duty finder content this means that the regen healers will have more than sufficient shields and shielding healers will have more than enough healing power to handle this, making the split seem silly to the majority of the playerbase because it'll be Savage and Ultimate where this split may become relevant. (This is proven in the benchmark trailer where Ast/Whm/Sage all showed a shield and Sch showing off a heal, riveting >_>)

    2. Gear will devalue the split as time goes on, content will get crept and as it does shields become less necessary making the split seem pointless again.

    At this point the job devs do not know how to make healers anything but functional and even then they have screwed up that in the past(3.0-3.1 Ast, 4.X Whm lillies, 5.0 no energy drain for Sch etc), while the content design devs rarely factor in what a healer can do(All healers got Repose this expansion, a single lv 80 role quest does not validate this decision to remove it from Whm for a role action, CCs are so rarely utilised even when the devs can force groups to have specific ones) so yeah I am jaded at this point and I have no faith the developers actually know what they are doing with regards to healer design beyond "Hey it functions" .
    (1)

  7. #97
    Player
    Roeshel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    441
    Character
    Kael Yoshim
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Liam_Harper View Post
    Oh it can certainly get worse.

    Keep in mind, some of their most recent changes involve nerfing Energy Drain to try to make SCH's use Aether to overheal more of the non-existent damage they've designed and buffing Succor of all things so it can be spammed more. This tiers raid and tome sets were riddled with more Piety than ever because they actually think we need the stat. They also still have no healer designer and most of the class design for EDW is already finished. We have had almost no communication the entire expansion and they've actually believed "Shield healer" is a thing and turned it into an identity when OT and MT for tanks was something they steered away from because it was an awful idea.

    So we have a few dps mains with little healer experience and bad ideas who believe we spam heals and need to dps less, in charge of our role right now. Let that sink in.
    I am honestly entertained by the shield/pure healer concept. The so-called shield healer(SCH) can actually heal a target in a lot more ways than it can shield it. Can't wait to see Sage. In the reveal we only saw Sage's version of a baby heal, ST attack, Barrier spell(could just as well be something like Aldo), AoE and that's it. A little bit embarrassing tbh. The actual kit for healing which makes Sage different than the other healers is not represented at all.
    (1)
    Last edited by Roeshel; 09-07-2021 at 11:32 PM.

  8. #98
    Player
    FoxCh40s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    332
    Character
    Source Eldion
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Roeshel View Post
    I am honestly entertained by the shield/pure healer concept. The so-called shield healer(SCH) can actually heal a target in a lot more ways than it can shield it. Can't wait to see Sage. In the reveal we only saw Sage's version of a baby heal, ST attack, Barrier spell(could just as well be something like Aldo), AoE and that's it. A little bit embarrassing tbh. The actual kit for healing which makes Sage different than the other healers is not represented at all.
    That's because it likely won't be. Healers now are pretty much identical. I doubt that won't be the case continuing forward.
    (0)

  9. #99
    Player
    Roeshel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    441
    Character
    Kael Yoshim
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxCh40s View Post
    That's because it likely won't be. Healers now are pretty much identical. I doubt that won't be the case continuing forward.
    The only identical part is the 1 dot, 1 nuke, 1 AoE, the baby heal, and the normal heal.

    For AST, cards are unique, divination is unique, Collective unconscious and Celestion Opposition are unique, Earthly Star has damage and massive raid-wide cure potency, which is almost instant, on oGCD, again unique. Neutral Sect differs from Dissipation and Temperance because it changes GCD casts, this is something unique to AST. Horoscope, Celestial Intersection, and Essential Dignity are also unique oGCDs that belong to AST.

    For SCH, the fairy plus all of the fairy commands which are 6 in total if we include Seraph. Chain Stratagem, Recitation, Idomitability, Lustrate, Aetherflow, Dissipation, Sacred Soil, Excognication. These abilities are unique to SCH. Their normal heal - Aldo, also has a special effect. Deployment and Emergency Tactics are odd utility abilities but they should be mentioned. Let's not forget about Ruin II which enables weaving and Energy Drain which makes weaving almost DPS neutral.

    For WHM, Presence of Mind, Assize, Asylum, Divine Benison, Thin Air, Benediction, Temperance - 30y radius party-wide damage reduction ability that synergizes with the lilies, Plenary Indulgence, Tetragrammaton, Lily spells, and Afflatus Misery. We can also add Cure III since we are talking about uniqueness and that ability is still used somewhere in the game, unlike Fluid Aura. Holy's stun effect should be included in WHM's uniqueness as well.

    The way the healer jobs are designed allows for braindead spamming of gcd healing spells in order to heal what someone who knows the class can heal by fully utilizing their healing kit. How you heal while dps-ing is the real gameplay of healers. What I saw in the Sage reveal is what 80% of the healers in duty finder do. That's not an actual representation of the class. They showcased a lot more of Reaper's abilities.

    When I am playing Sage I don't expect to heal with the abilities showcased, unless they are oGCDs which I doubt they are. The only spells that I will be using are the offensive ones. I really hope the one which I think is an AoE attack is not actually an AoE attack but more like an augmented version of their ST spell or something like that. They did say that Sage can augment their abilities which sounds interesting at least to me.
    (2)
    Last edited by Roeshel; 09-08-2021 at 01:00 AM.

  10. #100
    Player
    Recon1o6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,296
    Character
    Avarnia Corthal
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Diurnal ast and whm are even more identical though

    1 dot, 1 nuke, 1 aoe, 1 baby heal thats got a trap trait, 1 regular heal boosted by said trap trait, 1 heal+regen, 1 aoe heal, 1 aoe heal+regen, 1 haste buff, 1 aoe damage and heal ogcd and they are just the ones off the top of my head

    That's what foxchaos is getting at. Going into 6.0 "whm" and "ast" will be even more identical sadly. They're barely more than conjurers with ogcd heals as it stands.
    (3)

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