The trouble with telling tanks W2W pulls are a mandatory norm.

[Caurcas]

Go fast, touch grass.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

I know it's a cliche at this point; but if you don't like the random, disparate styles and goals that come with random groups then create your own groups and enforce your mindset.

Exactly, but this goes both ways.

If a person wants to 100% have a specific kind of run, they shouldn't be queueing for DF, full stop, no exceptions. Whether its wanting W2W or slow as molasses.

Once you're in the DF, majority rules regardless of your own personal thoughts, and if you don't agree with the majority, you leave or conform. Thankfully, the overwhelming desire of DF is to go as fast as possible so the slow runners are very often in the very small minority.

[Goji1639]

Exactly, but this goes both ways.

If a person wants to 100% have a specific kind of run, they shouldn't be queueing for DF, full stop, no exceptions. Whether its wanting W2W or slow as molasses.

Once you're in the DF, majority rules regardless of your own personal thoughts, and if you don't agree with the majority, you leave or conform. Thankfully, the overwhelming desire of DF is to go as fast as possible so the slow runners are very often in the minority.

I agree that in DF majority rules, and I've always felt that vote kicking is completely justified if playstyles can't be reconciled.

From what I've seen, however, the overwhelming desire in DF is to just get the content done without talking to anybody. In that way most people don't really care or even notice if someone in the group is slacking. People who legitimately care enough to pipe up are rare, and in fact a minority; and when they kick up a fuss or try to vote kick they usually get ignored.

Either way, people who want to do the bare minimum don't need to use PF because they don't care how the rest of the group plays. If everyone else wants to be lazy to it's fine, and if they want to play their little hearts out that's also fine. Lazy players are flexible, and don't need to change how everyone else around them is playing.

People who require fast runs need to forcibly alter the playstyles of others, though, and that requires PF.

[Xirean]

I'm guessing they don't care about your reasons or preferences any more than you care about theirs. They'd prefer a lazy run for "reasons" and you'd prefer an ultra effort, fast as possible run for "reasons." Neither of you is right, wrong or out of line. Different playstyles and goals happen when different people are paired up randomly.

Too many people struggle to accept that, and just get worked up when they run into motivations that don't mirror their own. I know it's a cliche at this point; but if you don't like the random, disparate styles and goals that come with random groups then create your own groups and enforce your mindset.

How on earth did you get that from what they said?

[Goji1639]

How on earth did you get that from what they said?

Intuition. If they have no preference towards optimal effort and fast clears then lazy players shouldn't be an issue for them.

[Xirean]

Intuition. If they have no preference towards optimal effort and fast clears then lazy players shouldn't be an issue for them.

That's not at all what that means. People can have a preference for a range of effort. It's not a this or that situation.

[Nethereal]

I don't know maybe I just suck at Scholar but I find I have less burst healing then the other two healers so sometimes its a bit harder keep people up on W2W especially when 7/10 tanks don't use defensive cool downs on trash to help you out.

SCH has the worst kit of the 3 for leveling.

WHM > Diurnal AST > Nocturnal AST > SCH

[Goji1639]

That's not at all what that means. People can have a preference for a range of effort. It's not a this or that situation.

So are you saying they wouldn't prefer optimal or maximum effort? That their preference for speed ends somewhere below optimal; and anything faster they wouldn't approve of?

I'd say if you prefer speed then it's reasonable to intuit that preference extends to the fastest possible.

[ForteNightshade]

People who require fast runs need to forcibly alter the playstyles of others, though, and that requires PF.

You oddly both acknowledged Daerilon's point and missed it at the same time. Like she said, and I agree myself, it goes both ways. People who demand slow, leisurely runs also need to alter their preferred playstyle if they queue into DF and everyone else wants to go fast. Otherwise, they're the ones who should go into PF or use Trusts.

Intuition. If they have no preference towards optimal effort and fast clears then lazy players shouldn't be an issue for them.

Well, your intuition needs work.

Being efficient doesn't necessarily mean "hyper, speed optimization!" Speaking for myself, I'm not fussed over a White Mage who uses a few extra Cure IIs instead of Holys I probably didn't need or a Paladin that Clemency's once in a while even if completely unnecessary. Wall pulling isn't speed running but simply moving the dungeon long at a faster pace because the mobs don't deal enough outgoing damage. It's expecting a decent amount of healer DPS and DPS themselves to properly AoE.

For what I said specifically. My point is I want everyone to put in a reasonably efficient effort. If you're queuing into content to get away from your screaming child and thus only want to spam heals without ever touching Holy. You're neither putting in a reasonable effort nor being fair to your party mates and should probably sort out your RL problem first. Whenever I do content, even if I've had a hard day, I still try to separate that from how I play because, well it isn't anyone else's fault nor concern my day is bad. I'm not going to turn a twelve minute dungeon into a thirty minute one because I wanna take things slow when they don't. If my personal problems are that bad. I'll do someone on my own.

[Xirean]

So are you saying they wouldn't prefer optimal or maximum effort? That their preference for speed ends somewhere below optimal; and anything faster they wouldn't approve of?

I'd say if you prefer speed then it's reasonable to intuit that preference extends to the fastest possible.

You realize that people can have a range of comfortably right? I prefer somewhat faster runs. That doesn't mean that I need every run to be in that spot. If I get a tank who does really good pulls, or dps who do insane damage, or whatever then I appreciate that. I don't expect it. Likewise if I get people who are slightly below where I usually prefer people to be, that is also fine. I'm not gonna flip out on someone cause they are going too fast. If someone requests to go slow, I'm not gonna bother them about that either. I really don't get the conclusions you jump to.