Who is your least favorite major character and why?

[StriderShinryu]

This is why I kind of enjoy Fandaniel more at the moment, as crazy as he is (or seems to be) there's actually a bit of character and charisma there.

This is a good point, and I agree completely with it. Zenos alone is bad and boring, but Zenos next to Fandaniel actually just makes Zenos even worse. There's nothing at all wrong with a psychotic villain who just wants to see the world burn. Heck, Kefka is one of the most beloved FF villains of all time and he wasn't exactly much deeper than that. Fandaniel is over dramatic and clearly unhinged. He's actually fun, and fun to hate especially given the body he's using. He just wants everything to end, which actually ends up being a nice counterpoint to both Emet and Elidibus. Plus, having an Ascian who may be less powerful but is not really restricted by the sort of rules and laws Emet and Elidibus played by is another bonus.

So, do we need a villain with some major, relatable back story that we empathize with? No, we don't. But if you're going to give us an inhuman villain that clearly doesn't care about any rules of morality then at least make them fun and interesting. Make them someone we actually want to see beaten and ground into the dirt. We already have that... in Fandaniel.

[Yencat]

I mean..you can say that about a lot of characters, such as elidibus, He's be here since ARR and he hasn't done anything until the middle of SB, same thing with varis and yet...people like him when he has did less than zenos.
Just sounds to me you're trying to justify your reason hating zeno's when there are other characters like that.
I thought varis was boring yet people liked him. So.

Maybe it's just a matter of personal taste in the end, and I was never a huge fan of Varis myself, but with what little we saw of him he showed a lot more personality and actually had a presence.

I have 0 issues with Zenos not having a sympathetic backstory or deeper motives beyond fighting and killing, I'm totally on board with that, but right now I sadly don't find him particularly fun or engaging to watch. If the colour beige was a person their name would be Zenos.

Hopefully they'll give us something to work with come Endwalker so I can at least love to hate him like that little worm Asahi.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Maybe it's just a matter of personal taste in the end, and I was never a huge fan of Varis myself, but with what little we saw of him he showed a lot more personality and actually had a presence.

I have 0 issues with Zenos not having a sympathetic backstory or deeper motives beyond fighting and killing, I'm totally on board with that, but right now I sadly don't find him particularly fun or engaging to watch. If the colour beige was a person their name would be Zenos.

Hopefully they'll give us something to work with come Endwalker so I can at least love to hate him like that little worm Asahi.

Maybe it has to do with him not seeming obsessive enough about this fight that he wants? Like he's not putting an effort out to make it happen like we'd expect. I mean the angle of villain just wants to defeat/kill the hero has been done in many other games/stories but in most of those the villain is more animated about it and often goes as far as to change themselves or make sacrifices for the power they want or need to achieve said goal.

[DBriggs304]

Lyse. Hands down.

[Yencat]

Maybe it has to do with him not seeming obsessive enough about this fight that he wants? Like he's not putting an effort out to make it happen like we'd expect. I mean the angle of villain just wants to defeat/kill the hero has been done in many other games/stories but in most of those the villain is more animated about it and often goes as far as to change themselves or make sacrifices for the power they want or need to achieve said goal.

Definitely, which is what I'm hoping to see in Endwalker. Seeing any sort of drive, fire or passion from him would be very welcome.

[VirusOnline]

Going to have to go with Zenos. Very under developed. You can sum up his motivation as being bored. Pretty lame imo. Cid is a little better with his fathers back story.

I heard a rule once that it's very dangerous to write your character as being bored.
And it's also hard to write from the perspective of someone who is bored.
If you're writing a bored character, it's likely that the writer is bored, and that the reader will also get bored.
It takes skill to make a bored character (who does nothing and is bored of whatever inaction) likeable or sympathetic. You're more likely to make a boring character instead.

A major difference between Zenos and Fandaniel is that Fandaniel is not bored. Rather, he's having fun. The thrill of death and chaos is what excites and drives him to emotion.
I knew the moment Zenos said he was bored that a big mistake in his writing had been done.
But he thicc so I ugh

[Allegor]

Maybe it has to do with him not seeming obsessive enough about this fight that he wants? Like he's not putting an effort out to make it happen like we'd expect. I mean the angle of villain just wants to defeat/kill the hero has been done in many other games/stories but in most of those the villain is more animated about it and often goes as far as to change themselves or make sacrifices for the power they want or need to achieve said goal.

I think this is it, actually. He has only 2 character traits - being bored of life itself, and wanting to fight the WoL. One could argue he's simply waiting for us to get stronger so the inevitable encounter becomes more fun, like he did during the SB leveling MSQ, but that still doesn't justify him just....sitting there doing literally nothing every time he's onscreen. Even when Fandaniel started getting an active role, Zenos was just there taking a nap on his throne.

[kaynide]

Re: ongoing villain discussion

I think there is a general lack of focus from a lot of the villains which is why they love or hate certain ones.


Like Emet, he had an entire expansion to build up what he was about. He didn’t necessarily have to be deep, just that there was one major goal that came to a head.

Elidabus, while he has been around, has just been a generic Ascian baddie/manipulator. That was all good enough for him. (ShB spoiler):

Him impersonating Ardbert was a weird choice (people in the current era wouldn’t know who that was), then the sudden reveal that he was a primal and the original warrior of light was just not impactful and made me wonder why they even went that route.

If that was the plan, we should have at least heard of an original warrior of light, or had a warrior of light story/lore dump like we saw in Rak’tika regarding Zodiark and Hydalyn. A legend of Zelda breath of the wild opening cinematic kinda video would have told us the original WoL was important.

Finally, him showing up as the original warrior of light reborn would have had the people rally behind him and had us think he was lying, only to reveal that no, he is indeed the original WoL.

[TeraRamis]

Re: ongoing villain discussion

I think there is a general lack of focus from a lot of the villains which is why they love or hate certain ones.


Like Emet, he had an entire expansion to build up what he was about. He didn’t necessarily have to be deep, just that there was one major goal that came to a head.

Elidabus, while he has been around, has just been a generic Ascian baddie/manipulator. That was all good enough for him. (ShB spoiler):

Him impersonating Ardbert was a weird choice (people in the current era wouldn’t know who that was), then the sudden reveal that he was a primal and the original warrior of light was just not impactful and made me wonder why they even went that route.

If that was the plan, we should have at least heard of an original warrior of light, or had a warrior of light story/lore dump like we saw in Rak’tika regarding Zodiark and Hydalyn. A legend of Zelda breath of the wild opening cinematic kinda video would have told us the original WoL was important.

Finally, him showing up as the original warrior of light reborn would have had the people rally behind him and had us think he was lying, only to reveal that no, he is indeed the original WoL.

IMO, Elidabus' entire plot in ShB felt like a write-off. Like 'oh, hey, we has one Asian still focused on his mission; better clean that up quick.'

I liked Emet infinitely more than Elidabus, and desperately wanted the old guy to survive the expansion. But Elidabus deserved more than he got.

[SpanishInkwehsitor]

Y’shtola.

Square needs to either actually kill her off or acknowledge her plot armor is a mile thick. She’s a walking Deus Ex Machina at this point.