Why does Warrior AoE have to be so much worse than other tanks?

[Goji1639]

LOL
When I let them encircle me I'm spreading them out? lol, I'm starting to understand how pointless this is, but I'll try one more time.
No I don't yank it all around, I stir it 'till it's dead. All the while within range of my healer, within the aoes, and keeping everything pointed away from the party as much as the game allows. All you have to do is pay attention to what is going on around you and keep moving around them, instead of insisting on standing there complaining that they encircled you and now your aoes don't hit them all.

And no you shouldn't be eating aoe's, you should avoid them if possible so the healer can holy/art of war/gravity more instead of healing you because you face tanked avoidable damage. Best case scenario you only take damage from auto attacks and uninterruptible spells during mob pulls.

When you stop moving and let them encircle you, you are spreading the group of mobs out. You have this movement called strafing, try it sometime. Use it to encircle your enemies instead of letting your enemies encircle you.

When I let them encircle me I'm spreading them out? lol, I'm starting to understand how pointless this is, but I'll try one more time.

Think of the ball as a giant circle and yourself as it's center. When the center moves the ball follows it. If the center moves out of a DPS's stationary AoE the ball moves out of the DPS's stationary AoE. If you keep yourself centered in the DPSs AoE then that guarantees that the most enemies possible will be eating it's damage for it's entire duration.

As for the flank damage you might eat, don't worry about it. Just focus and timing your CDs and the Healer won't ever have to stop DPSing; Healers have OCD Heals they can weave into their DPS rotations that are MORE than enough to keep you alive. They don't need you to run around like a headless chicken trying to avoid flanks; doing that just kind of irritates the group.

[Tint]

When I let them encircle me I'm spreading them out? lol, I'm starting to understand how pointless this is, but I'll try one more time.

Think of the ball as a giant circle and yourself as it's center. When the center moves the ball follows it. If the center moves out of a DPS's stationary AoE the ball moves out of the DPS's stationary AoE. If you keep yourself centered in the DPSs AoE then that guarantees that the most enemies possible will be eating it's damage for it's entire duration.

I, as a Black Mage, have to target my AoE spells and it hits everything around that target. I prefer to have an enemy in the middle of the mob pack, so I can target it and hit everything in the pack. If a tank stays in the middle I have to target an enemy on the side - and will not hit the enemies on the other side, because my AoE does not reach that far.

[Lonkkis]

Not sure what you mean. If you're running outside of the ball then the ball is going to adjust it's position to encircle you. If you're running back and forth inside the ball you're taking flank damage anyways. If you stand still and center yourself in stationary AoE damage then every enemy will converge on that AoE. If you run around trying to avoid flank damage the healer can EASILY heal through, you're just making the fight take longer and kind of being annoying.

Again, just advice. Dungeons are so easy that no matter what you do chances are no one will say anything to you.

Flank damage isn't a thing in FF14 anymore, with the changes to Block/Parry. Used to, but that's outdated information now. For instance, Raw Intuition used to be 100% Parry from front but 100% crit damage taken from back, but that changed.
And yes, you can block/parry 360 degrees.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

For real, though. If you just stay put in one spot while tanking more than 4 mobs (especially if they’re gigantic mobs), they will slowly encircle you instead of balling up conveniently for your DPS to maul them down. They can’t target the center of the mobs because the middle of the crowd is actually occupied you, the tank. For whatever reason this game can’t handle overlapping hitbox in most cases, so naturally balled up enemies will slowly slips further from one another. Strafing and wiggling a bit mitigates this by keeping them balled up nice & tight instead of encircling you.

This in fact gives WAR’s 8y conal AoE a bit edge over the other tank’s 5y circle AoE centered on them because while you’re strafing, naturally most of the mobs will be positioned to your front. Try to do the same with the latter, their missing 3y range probably won’t reach all mobs in front of you that incessantly tries to encircles you unless they have gigantic hitbox.

The only iffy part is, we need a target to even perform the weaponskill.

[Goji1639]

For real, though. If you just stay put in one spot while tanking more than 4 mobs (especially if they’re gigantic mobs), they will slowly encircle you instead of balling up conveniently for your DPS to maul them down. They can’t target the center of the mobs because the middle of the crowd is actually occupied you, the tank. For whatever reason this game can’t handle overlapping hitbox in most cases, so naturally balled up enemies will slowly slips further from one another. Strafing and wiggling a bit mitigates this by keeping them balled up nice & tight instead of encircling you.

This in fact gives WAR’s 8y conal AoE a bit edge over the other tank’s 5y circle AoE centered on them because while you’re strafing, naturally most of the mobs will be positioned to your front. Try to do the same with the latter, their missing 3y range probably won’t reach all mobs in front of you that incessantly tries to encircles you unless they have gigantic hitbox.

The only iffy part is, we need a target to even perform the weaponskill.

Lightly strafing inside the ball wouldn't prevent flank damage, though, which apparently doesn't exist anymore anyways, so I guess that whole discussion was moot.

The Warrior's cone only hits more if you strafe way to the edge of the ball, but I do see your point if strafing does actually group them up better because they can't navigate through your hitbox.

I, as a Black Mage, have to target my AoE spells and it hits everything around that target. I prefer to have an enemy in the middle of the mob pack, so I can target it and hit everything in the pack. If a tank stays in the middle I have to target an enemy on the side - and will not hit the enemies on the other side, because my AoE does not reach that far.

Honestly, it's never seemed to me like the enemies can't navigate through my hitbox, but it might be because I'm lightly strafing naturally to avoid AoEs. I'll have to try standing completely still once and see if the enemies really don't close in completely because of my hitbox.

[DeaconMoore]

Think of the ball as a giant circle and yourself as it's center. When the center moves the ball follows it. If the center moves out of a DPS's stationary AoE the ball moves out of the DPS's stationary AoE. If you keep yourself centered in the DPSs AoE then that guarantees that the most enemies possible will be eating it's damage for it's entire duration.

As for the flank damage you might eat, don't worry about it. Just focus and timing your CDs and the Healer won't ever have to stop DPSing; Healers have OCD Heals they can weave into their DPS rotations that are MORE than enough to keep you alive. They don't need you to run around like a headless chicken trying to avoid flanks; doing that just kind of irritates the group.

Ok we are talking about 2 completely different balls. My ball is composed of the enemies only and they are surrounded/flanked by the party with the tank on one side and the rest on the other. Your ball has you in the middle and surrounded. My ball is as tightly compacted as possible kill zone, your ball is all spread out around the tank. My ball, dps aoes can hit everything, yours not so much.

Also you never had to worry about flank damage with my ball as my ball is in front of the tank in it's entirety. All you have to worry about is keeping it in position when you've reached your kill spot and avoiding the enemy aoes. It's pretty straight forward, you just need to keep shifting around so they don't disperse to surround you. If you're running around like a chicken with it's head cut off, you're doing it wrong. You move with purpose.

Give it a try sometime.

[Hausti]

You know we have a subforum for tanks right?

Oh wait: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...g-as-a-Warrior

[Eien713]

The cone aoe is the main reason I dislike WAR compared to the other tanks. It's so inconvenient.

[Roeshel]

Warrior is the best tank at level cap. Can do double pulls and survive on their own while dealing damage, can't say the same for gnb.

DRK has a frontal AoE as well. And actually positioning mobs all in one place is far better than having them gathered around you because if you do it like that, the dps is not going to be able to hit all of the mobs at once because they are spread around the tank.

Their oGCD is Infuriate, though not technically an attack of itself, it is something that empowers your gcd. Not all tanks must play the exact same way.

[Naoki34]

Why does Warrior AoE have to be so much worse than other tanks?.

Being able to master WAR which requires a bit more skill for AoE, is also a way to shine in society, nothing to complain about.

Should the NIN complain that it takes more skill than a DRG to do dps?

Ps : Before for a PLD to do an area aggro, he only had Flash and nothing else (you had to raise the aggro of each mob in the pack by switching targets, one by one yes and spam Flash which burns your mana very fast), and at another time, you had to fight to hold the aggro against the big dps, now, it's sticking to the tank ad aeternam if the tank is not afk and maybe you need more.

I could complain that the tanking system is casualized, but I don't have any power here, it's Yoshi-P who decides if his game is casualized or not, on that point.