PVP REWARDS SUGGESTION (FEAST)

[Commander_Justitia]

You are probably right about the backlash, but what are we talking a couple hundred players considering alts. Feast rewards don't even make 1% of players. Again probably a good reason feast will die

It would be bad faith to give old rewards away. Not so sure about slight redesigns. They literally took PvE mount coloured it and said pay me. So they aren't exactly spotless.

The size of the PvP community is not solely determined by the number of winners... And what are you comparing to? Total players, Characters created, active players at max level, active players at max level who cleared savage ?

Lets compare PvP Ranked community vs. PvE Savage Community

PvP community isn't big, but there are probably 500+ people per dc at the start competing, probably half stopping within the first month. If you compare it with PvE, after 3 months of e12s being released, an EU datacenter has still under 1000 people with the mount. NA is a bit better, and JP way better at clearing.

You can argue now, if PvE Savage content is only for single digit % of the community, they shouldn't be mad if it dies, right? Even more so for ultimate. xD

And as far as I remember, they only took mounts that are part of mainstory or really cheap, and recolored them for mogstation. So it is not like they are exclusive or hard to get to begin with ​

My experiences and enjoyment isn't measured by whether I have something other people can't obtain. I have several exclusive things on my main account and couldn't care less if they were made available to the masses. I also find it a little disingenuous people will fight in favor of exclusive rewards when there is no rank decry. Literally every competitive PvP game has this to prevent people sitting on their rank... except this one. Which is another reason why queues completely die within 2-3 weeks.

I see it like, getting the reward is like a trophy or medal from a sport competition, you wouldn't want anybody else to get your 2020 Olympic Gold Medal if you won it by yourself or? Athletes simply enjoy that they won, they don't think about how they prevented others from getting it. But they would care if suddenly everyone gets a 2020 Gold Medal, for doing the same you did but way worse x1000.

Rank Decay doesn't fit this mode, once you understand it more, you will realize it. And it is also not the reason why it dies within 2-3 weeks at lower tiers. Just start simple by asking yourself, how you would implement rank decay; how often do you have to play to prevent decay from happening? Will there be still max rating then? If not, would people not be more pressured into playing the least possible just so they can stay around their peak rating longer, instead of risking many matches and losing it all. Another issue is that the season may be long, if you invest your time at the start - it means you will lose your rating till the end because of decay. But if you start towards the end, you have no disadvantages.
Decay would also hit all the casual PvP people who just want to reach a certain tier for wolf collars.

A better way would be, to promote/reward something like a daily Feast roulette, that has a +/-0.5 rating modifier. So you could gain 50% more rating with a win, or lose 50% less in case of a loss. Or make wolfcollars drop like fenrir pups within the mode randomly.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

I will belive all these "duh but they were advertised as exclusive top 100" mounts/armors player, that seem to rejoice in the prestigie and relish the exclusitivity and rarity of their mounts when:

- Mounts become temporal and only one per account.
- If you don't participate in The Feast the following season you lose all your rewards.
- Only retaining your ranking will allow you to retain your rewards.
- This applies to all The Feast rewards.

You want your PvP highly competitive mount? Well: PvP for it then.

Use a system of competitive reward tracks for each season: You can work your track ranking to each reward. Some tracks will be light on competition - others will be extremely competitive. At the end of the season only those in the top of the track will be allowed to use that track rewards for the coming season, only able to continue to keep them by ranking again.

OR.

- Implement a reward decay: Older season rewards get released after a set time, let's say: 10 seasons.
- Implement a token reward system based on top ranking: Instead of directly getting a reward, you get a token - we already have the collars so Wolf Mark and Wolf Collars work.
- Implement an NPC that handles the conversion of Wolk Marks into Wolf Collars and add all previous season rewards to be tradable.
- New current season rewards won't be tradable for Collars for the next 10 seasons.


All of this keep the rewards valuable, exclusive and rare. Introduces also a variable for actual seasonal progression, removes the time factor: Grinding won't be an alternative unless you want to wait REAAAAALLY long.
It would add replayability competition will be brutal if you want a particular mount, title, armor, etc. Making trading near impossible.
New players will flock to the game mode.

I wonder how many players dropped PvP or the game entirely after getting their rewards. Or sold their accounts.

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The community might realize then that the problem is not PvP mechanically, but it's atrocious reward structure.

One time exclusive non-adquirable rewards only hurt the game. Outside the legacy rewards and status, they have no place in game as the only thing they do is punish anyone by their "time allowance". Either not being able to pump time into the game as others or by merely not being able to play or not having been playing at all.
For example im terribly sad for all the players that cannot get the GARO event rewards.

[Moonlite]

snip

https://ffxivcollect.com/mounts


A million people could start feast that doesn't change the fact that only 800 globally. Not sure does any other content have less then 800 clear? That would only be 100 statics globally.



I think it is a moot point though. Feast is going away and probably this reward system as well. Except for a small few, people won't miss it. It doesn't fit into the current mould of ff14. look at what they did to crafting and gathering to get more people into it.

[Commander_Justitia]

https://ffxivcollect.com/mounts


A million people could start feast that doesn't change the fact that only 800 globally. Not sure does any other content have less then 800 clear? That would only be 100 statics globally.



I think it is a moot point though. Feast is going away and probably this reward system as well. Except for a small few, people won't miss it

Gonna ignore the delusional spammer guy above you. But yeah, it sounded like you meant only those few hundred people who get the reward, have to just accept it that it's for the greater good to get rid of exclusivity, but I think its a lot more people that are interested in it not being devalued and a lot more than those few hundred are actively participating for it. Some people suffer/work a lot to get good at it to get it, and they would feel strongly against it.

Yeah Feast gets removed at least temporarily and they announced they will change the reward structure. Even many PvP players don't like the current system, but doesn't mean they want to see it trivialized completely, how some are demanding it because they missed out to play PvP.

[Moonlite]

Gonna ignore the delusional spammer guy above you. But yeah, it sounded like you meant only those few hundred people who get the reward, have to just accept it that it's for the greater good to get rid of exclusivity, but I think its a lot more people that are interested in it not being devalued and a lot more than those few hundred are actively participating for it. Some people suffer/work a lot to get good at it to get it, and they would feel strongly against it.

Yeah Feast gets removed at least temporarily and they announced they will change the reward structure. Even many PvP players don't like the current system, but doesn't mean they want to see it trivialized completely, how some are demanding it because they missed out to play PvP.

I think you are giving others too much credit that they care about value one way or another. What I would agree on is SE said those specific items were exclusive. Players do like to hold SE to their word. Legacy players got an exclusive gobbue mount though that was adjusted and released for the masses. No one seemed to care, that I remember.



I think SE has a tough decision. PvPers want to look exclusive, but a chunk of the player base doesn't like exclusivity. The best I can come up with is they ad some sort of ultimate. So PvPers can argue go earn it, but hard enough that PvPers still feel that they are as unique as the people who clear ultimates.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

they are as unique as the people who clear ultimates.

Which can be purchased with gil or irl money you say?
They will never be the same unless Ultimates had the same philosophy of exclusivity behind as PvP does. Only the first 80 players (first 10 parties) get to have the rewards of Ultimate, then is closed forever.

That would work wonders i imagine.


And the "exclusivity" of Legacy rewards and Feast rewards are completely different topics, not even comparable really.

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The only solution for PvP is to remove the exclusivity through timegating. No matter what they come up with. Unless they really belive they can compete through "balance and mechanics" alone against other PvP games - Like intending this game have a pvp worth of being an e-sport... Oh.

[rofland]

can I get the rank 1 trophies for wolf marks
or wolf collars

[Moonlite]

Which can be purchased with gil or irl money you say?
They will never be the same unless Ultimates had the same philosophy of exclusivity behind as PvP does. Only the first 80 players (first 10 parties) get to have the rewards of Ultimate, then is closed forever.

You missed the point. The point was to allow an unlimited amount of players to be able to earn rewards like ultimate's. But hard enough like ultimate's they still feel special. People who cheat aren't open for discussion, they are outside of the scope of the game. But they will have to come up with some system that tries to accommodate your side and the other side as well.



Also you probably don't have to worry about time gating rewards. Feast is going away, which probably means the top 100 rewards with it. It has not fostered growth or a healthy community interaction between PvP and PvE player base, nor become an e-sport. The current system is not inline with a current percentage of MMO players. I am not sure what SE thought would happen.

[Stormfur]

I think the only thing they ever did right with PVP was Garo. That got people into PVP, the results were attainable but yes you had to PVP for them and actually put in the effort (not comparing them to the Feast rewards btw) and if you REALLY wanted to show off, you got all of them and the Makai Master title. Your ability to do so wasn't dependent on anyone else -- just the investment of your own time and effort.

Hopefully whatever this new mode is will have more events like that.

[Rhos]

Potato, these casuals will never value your hard work and time spent "gittin gud" at pvp for those exclusive hard earned TROPHIES. They want to purchase those trophies for laughably easily obtainable currency. This is what it really boils down to. Give us your Ranked, Hardcore PvP trophy cuz we want it.