Yotsuyu, the irredeemable monster

[Tensaihime]

I just want to know why the pimp is still breathing. She was the viceroy for years, and she could have had people track him down if she didn’t want to do it herself. What gives?

[DPZ2]

No, you just don't understand the cultural lesson the story is conveying here.

You then go on to teach a 'cultural lesson' using 21st century not-yet-100%-certified morals and laws. "Report them for abusing the child" - to whom, and what for? Children were (and still are, in some places) property to be disposed of as the parents see fit. Female children more so.

The term "pimp" is a bit 16th Century, which is closer than "madam", which is ever so 19th Century. Both associations are a bit on the shady side, but not necessarily illegal, depending on the culture involved. In certain times, and in certain cultures, the owners of sex slaves were actually on the right side of society.

Does it make it right in the 21st Century. Not in my eyes. Should it provide an excuse for Random Murder and Wanton Sadism against an entire country (and other countries ruled by the same Mad Person? Not in my eyes. Should I condone the behaviour of said Mad Person just because they've led a terrible life and finally have the Power to cut loose? No.

[Bright-Flower]

Yotsuyu was frustrating for me because with a few tweaks she could have been a very compelling villain. But when you introduce a character as comically evil as her, practically getting off to making civilians kill eachother, I don't care what her sad backstory is. And then the whole sickeningly sweet Tsuyu via contrived amnesia just made me roll my eyes rather than want to see her redeemed.

She could have been a villain with a point, could have been used to really show that pre imperial Doma wasn't all sunshine and rainbows, have her earnestly believe imperial rule was better, and have an actually morally gray villain in this war story. Instead she just wants to make domans suffer. And goes to comically evil lengths to do it. So when the idea of a possible redemption came around, I was rolling my eyes instead of really being invested in how it turned out. I wasn't happy or sad when she and her brother killed eachother. I was relieved they were finally gone from the story.

Pull back on her wanton cruelty, make her older so that the worst parts of her childhood were BEFORE the fall of Doma, make her a believer in the empire and their idea of civilizing the 'savages' etc, who remembers the flaws of old Doma and you have an actual antagonist who opposes Hien's ideals and goals rather than just being a crazy sadist with a sad back story.

[thegreatonemal]

You then go on to teach a 'cultural lesson' using 21st century not-yet-100%-certified morals and laws. "Report them for abusing the child" - to whom, and what for? Children were (and still are, in some places) property to be disposed of as the parents see fit. Female children more so.

The term "pimp" is a bit 16th Century, which is closer than "madam", which is ever so 19th Century. Both associations are a bit on the shady side, but not necessarily illegal, depending on the culture involved. In certain times, and in certain cultures, the owners of sex slaves were actually on the right side of society.

Does it make it right in the 21st Century. Not in my eyes. Should it provide an excuse for Random Murder and Wanton Sadism against an entire country (and other countries ruled by the same Mad Person? Not in my eyes. Should I condone the behaviour of said Mad Person just because they've led a terrible life and finally have the Power to cut loose? No.

Was there a point to any of that. Because you straight up missed the point I was making and did whatever this was.

[Shuuchi]

Pull back on her wanton cruelty, make her older so that the worst parts of her childhood were BEFORE the fall of Doma, make her a believer in the empire and their idea of civilizing the 'savages' etc, who remembers the flaws of old Doma and you have an actual antagonist who opposes Hien's ideals and goals rather than just being a crazy sadist with a sad back story.

While I think your idea is FAR more interesting than what SE came up with, SB was focused around a cardboard box called Zenos.
He wanted someone as cruel and destructive as possible, not someone who actually cares and want to reform Doma.

[Cilia]

OK, this is gonna be a long one.

The thing you need to "get" about Yotsuyu is that she is more likely than not commentary on Japanese culture past and present. Doma, being based on medieval Japan, naturally has a similar culture. Yotsuyu's wrath is directed primarily at her adopted family, but also Doman culture in general - chiefly the concept of filial piety (being loyal to your family, no matter what) and the tendency not to address social problems in order to save face. These cultural tenets absolutely destroyed Yotsuyu, twisting her into a hateful monster because her family was allowed to demand anything of her and she'd have to obey, while the rest of the country turned a blind eye because it wasn't their problem. Further exacerbating this is that Yotsuyu's "parents" were actually her aunt and uncle, and orphans / bastard children were (and still are) heavily stigmatized in the culture Doma was derived from.

(Final Fantasy's rival Persona illustrated the faults and flaws of contemporary Japanese culture well with its latest outing. Suffice to say there is a lot of cultural context behind Yotsuyu you won't get unless you familiarize yourself with at least some of it.)

Would I say Yotsuyu is an irredeemable monster? Ahh... no. Maybe it's just my particular sensibilities, but I believe it's implied Yotsuyu retakes her original identity (from "Tsuyu") because she realizes her family will never let her live a peaceful life and because she feels unbearably guilty over how kindly Gosetsu has been treating her despite how horribly she treated him (and to a lesser degree all of Doma) prior to her amnesia. So she opts for an elaborate suicide by cop from the Warrior of Light instead of living as her parents' and Asahi's tool because she believes she has no other options.

Overall I find Yotsuyu a deeply tragic and sympathetic character, not irredeemable by any means. That's not to say her actions are justifiable or excusable, but they are definitely understandable.

[DPZ2]

Was there a point to any of that. Because you straight up missed the point I was making and did whatever this was.

Your point was, and I quote: "Her abuse of the Doman people is simply payback in the same manner she was treated".

Your justification is based on a decidedly 21st century outlook that simply doesn't exist in the game world itself, and incorporates an outlook that better fits modern media tactics.

You used 'examples' such as child abuse and prostitution by pimp. Neither example exists in the game world as legal concepts, and the term 'pimp' wouldn't have been used (and actually was not used at all in-game)

As for 'payback in the same manner' ... not, not really. If it was in-kind payback there would be a lot less women in Doma itself, as they would have been transported to Garlemald as prostitutes.

Face it, Yotsuyu was a Mad Sadist who enjoyed torturing people. Maybe she learned from the best, maybe not. She herself realizes that she's still not satisfied, which speaks to a level of deparavity that cannot be excused as 'payback'.

[StriderShinryu]

“Petty.”
That is what Zenos called Yotsuyu.

Her drive is nowhere near Emet or Eli, nor anywhere near justifiable in comparison.

Perhaps you shouldn't use Zenos' words to classify anyone's motivations given that Zenos himself and his rage boner for the WoL is pretty much the dictionary definition of petty.

But what is "petty" for one person may be emotionally crippling and crippling for another. While Emet and Elidibus are absorbed in revenge for or reclamation of their world's being destroyed so is Yotsuyu, it's just that Yotsuyu's world is an internal one. Did the story as written and told properly bring that forward? No, but that doesn't make her an inherently bad character, it just makes her a badly written one (or, more precisely, a hastily written one that lost nuance because they needed to Supervillain her in the case of expediency).

[MilkieTea]

Perhaps you shouldn't use Zenos' words to classify anyone's motivations given that Zenos himself and his rage boner for the WoL is pretty much the dictionary definition of petty.

But what is "petty" for one person may be emotionally crippling and crippling for another. While Emet and Elidibus are absorbed in revenge for or reclamation of their world's being destroyed so is Yotsuyu, it's just that Yotsuyu's world is an internal one. Did the story as written and told properly bring that forward? No, but that doesn't make her an inherently bad character, it just makes her a badly written one (or, more precisely, a hastily written one that lost nuance because they needed to Supervillain her in the case of expediency).

I wish we could see how our current writer would've written Yostuyu.

I heavily, heavily empathize with her and her backstory, like I said earlier I went through very similar experiences as Yotsuyu as a child. I wonder if, given a similar writeup as Elidibus (whom we only saw for brief moments in ARR and then ShB for what... a total of 4 hours of playtime? and yet he's become a favored villain) and Emet-Selch, she'd be a lot more palatable to the main audience. For those who can already empathize with her, it's easy for us to see her and go "This is a solid, sympathetic villain. She did understandable things given the circumstances of her upbringing and while they were horrible things, it is easy to see where things would lead." But for those left out of that, it just seems contrived and I wonder if given different writing it wouldn't seem as contrived.

Though I will say her story was rushed as heck. I wish there'd been some more time to flesh her out beyond what they did.

[Steelbreaker25]

I wish we could see how our current writer would've written Yostuyu.

I heavily, heavily empathize with her and her backstory, like I said earlier I went through very similar experiences as Yotsuyu as a child. I wonder if, given a similar writeup as Elidibus (whom we only saw for brief moments in ARR and then ShB for what... a total of 4 hours of playtime? and yet he's become a favored villain) and Emet-Selch, she'd be a lot more palatable to the main audience. For those who can already empathize with her, it's easy for us to see her and go "This is a solid, sympathetic villain. She did understandable things given the circumstances of her upbringing and while they were horrible things, it is easy to see where things would lead." But for those left out of that, it just seems contrived and I wonder if given different writing it wouldn't seem as contrived.

Though I will say her story was rushed as heck. I wish there'd been some more time to flesh her out beyond what they did.

You mean Ishikawa? Because I'm pretty sure she was in charge of writing the entire Far Eastern half of Stormblood (though she most often gets attributed just the Azim Steppe portion). I'm not sure about the patch content though.