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  1. #1141
    Player
    OdinelStarrei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Ishgard
    Posts
    363
    Character
    Odinel Starrei
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by RyuDragnier View Post
    Yet ironically this version of DRK is better. Because we went from Dark Arts being something you had to balance the risk/reward of with the MP degen and being used alongside actual tank cooldowns (it modified a few of them), to being something you almost spammed EVERY SINGLE ATTACK. It didn't help that our identity as a DRK was destroyed when they ripped the kit from us because a bunch of PLDs complained they didn't have the stuff. We lost our parry -> Reprisal (originally a DRK exclusive move that was single target), our Crit -> Low Blow refresh (originally DRK exclusive stun), our Dark Arts + Dark Dance (became Anticipation) combo, our Delirium combo (our 2nd DPS combo), Abyssal Drain spam (it cost MP before), we lost so much of our kit and it was replaced with nothing but Dark Arts spam for EVERYTHING. DRK had no identity in Stormblood, and it was not fun. It's the end of Shadowbringers now, we have what feels like an identity, we have a cohesive kit (excluding Living Dead which is forever bleh), and most importantly, THE CLASS FEELS FUN.
    Here's a hot take. Channeling Tank Roles for a second sorry

    DRK has never been actually well designed in FFXIV. In every single iteration of the job, it has had some jank mechanic, some poorly designed mistake, something that handicaps it. HW DRK was a fantastic base of a job, that really shouldn't have changed too much. But don't say that it's because PLDs were complaining, it was because they deliberately designed a raid series with DRK in mind, primarily through heavy hitting magic attacks. You wanted NIN and DRG, so there was no spot for MNK for magic down via Dragon Kick, so of course, PLD with Phys down versus DRK with Magic down was rejected. Who cares about phys down when everything in the game had Mega Holy or something. It didn't help that you couldn't BLOCK MAGIC for some asinine reason. While at the same time making WAR mandatory, an actual powerhouse. Someone had to be last. No one ever used DA for anything but offensives honestly, because there was rarely a reason to use things like DADM, or DADD, especially in Creator. Same mentality that removed pre-ShB tanks stances, they were effectively dead buttons, and the only exception was DADP. And even DADP is a perfect example of why HW DRK is so odd, since things had to hit you with Blood Price for MP regen, you needed parries for Low Blow and Reprisal, but DADP made them miss with blind debuffs? Why?

    Instead of fixing these things, they gutted HW DRK to make SB DRK. Deleting great and interesting actions to homogenize them into the role action system, or deleting them outright. Removing the Darkside drain was a mistake so grave, it's on par with the SCH's Energy Drain removals. Except we never got it back. Of course SB DRK was going to devolve into DA spam, SE didn't replace the MP drain with anything, so players are going to start using the ONLY recourse left, using as much DA as possible, like we did back in HW. Except now, there's no Scourge management, there's no Delirium management, there's again, very little reason to use aggro combos, AND DP is a DPS loss in single target in comps without a SMN. Then they add in a new delirium that skyrockets MP gain even faster, on top of reducing it's cooldown in 4.3. Of course it's going to devolve into "SHINY BUTTON MUST PRESS RIGHT NOW". The only positive thing about SB DRK, is that Blood Weapon remained really good as an offensive action, and there was significantly more interplay between Blood, MP, and your damage output. Abyssal was STILL a GCD, and it STILL required MP, but since they added Bloodspiller/Quietus/TBN, the kit interactivity was on an unprecedented level. MP could give blood, blood could give MP, it was all a cycle on DRK. There was still an MP economy, just in the opposite direction, draining vs overcapping, to make the job less punishing. I have always said that much like the HW environment denied PLD players the opportunities they wanted, SB denied DRK players a legitimate reason to play the job in a practical fashion outside of TBN, particularly if you were a player who was more fond of HW DRK. There was simply no need for DRK to exist with no raid-mitigation, a high skill floor, and being rejected by a large portion of the playerbase. DRK had an identity in SB. Speed, TBN, stockpiling, and I guess, being the underdog, you really had to prove you and DRK weren't trash. It was contentious, it was not popular with people who didn't dedicate themselves to DRK at any cost, but it was there. Stupid decisions all around though.

    Then what does Shadowbringers do? Delete everything again. Now because people can't resist pressing shiny button, and just waiting for raid buffs, we're going to gut anything positive about SB DRK to make ShB DRK. Look at Salted Earth. Look at jank, broken Blood Weapon. Those skills are completely gutted like how they gutted Reprisal in SB. Like how Dark Arts now is a poor man's replacement for Low Blow procs and "kit synergy". When your level 80 level rotation looks like THIS.



    Look at all of those double weaves in the opener! That's a lot of ( not dark arts) spam. Then nothing. 123ing yourself into grave. You are TBN bot with overlong 60 sec cooldowns in ShB, at the best of times. If you don't have a team that allows you to utilize the admittedly very fun, and very interesting 5/3 or 6/2 edge rotations in burst, you have a less engaging and diverse GCD, and oGCD experience than a level 26 Rogue 3/4ths of the time (this is almost hyperbole, don't take it too seriously). The best thing ShB DRK did was remove the insanity of SB Dark Arts by simply INCREASING the MP costs and potency of MP spenders, which on it's own could've fixed that trainwreck. That came at the cost of Darkside becoming a non-mechanic you can't drop, the speed, the cost of actions being affected by each other, and the entire MP > Blood resource economy. I can't even augment my skills anymore? DRK has an identity now, and it's called, "TBN good and Living Dead bad". No one ever talks about how it's actually one of the highest raid buff abusers in the entire game, something that it shares with SB DRK, because that's not interesting enough for people. It's just easy to get into now because the skill floor is in the basement.

    There has never been a good, balanced, well-designed version of DRK. Just revisionist history about how bad or good or braindead or gigabrain it is/used to be, here's how I would change it (your post has exceeded the character limit, please shorten the post) The true identity of a DRK is constantly in flux because of SE's development, some side of it's playerbase is always going to be disappointed with it, no matter what. It's been changed too many times. But TBN is good so I guess that keeps it relevant. What an absolute mess it has been over the years.

    Either the raid environment around it was warped due to or in spite of it's presence, or the job itself was self-sabotaging. ShB DRK is so milquetoast though, that EW DRK might be pretty cool, I think. Being a DRK main is whack man. I like watching Asmongold play it though, I like seeing people have fun.
    (5)
    Last edited by OdinelStarrei; 08-08-2021 at 10:46 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CelestaRosa View Post
    this is my opinion. don't have share my opinion. don't have like my opinion. but know nothing you say or do is gonna make me change my opinion. if don't like that tough.

  2. #1142
    Player Wavaryen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    715
    Character
    Teladi Bishop
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhG-nd4b4s


    Just caught that. The fact is, Asmon knows he is toxic but is able to adapt to the community and systems to not be. This makes me really upset, because he is right. In wow, the community brings out the worse in me for sure. The systems as well. When I come to this game, I am so much chilled and have way more fun.


    After all this I had to do some soul searching, and remove wow from my juggle list of MMORPGS. Sad days, but whatever. A company that attacks the biggest streamer, not only that...but what he is saying is true. I have no hope at all that Blizzard will turn it around, if they can't even accept that the systems they made, and the community they built is very toxic.


    The only good thing that is coming from this is..the developers in ff14 are smart enough to see what systems, and tools help breed toxic games. and the mistakes WOW made this game does not.
    (7)
    Last edited by Wavaryen; 08-08-2021 at 10:45 AM.

  3. #1143
    Player Theodric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    10,051
    Character
    Matthieu Desrosiers
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    I rarely had any issues in WoW back when I played it. Maybe it's less to do with the fact that the community is toxic and more to do with specific servers/regional clusters? That can probably be applied to FFXIV as well.

    Either way, I vastly prefer dealing with outright aggression over passive aggression. The latter is actually more damaging, since it's usually accompanied by gaslighting, narcissism and manipulative behaviour.

    If we're talking 'toxic' systems, though, FFXIV is full of them. The housing system is arguably the most prominent example.
    (8)

  4. #1144
    Player
    technole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,971
    Character
    Thea Sitori
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 72
    Quote Originally Posted by Wavaryen View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhG-nd4b4s


    Just caught that. The fact is, Asmon knows he is toxic but is able to adapt to the community and systems to not be. This makes me really upset, because he is right. In wow, the community brings out the worse in me for sure. The systems as well. When I come to this game, I am so much chilled and have way more fun.


    After all this I had to do some soul searching, and remove wow from my juggle list of MMORPGS. Sad days, but whatever. A company that attacks the biggest streamer, not only that...but what he is saying is true. I have no hope at all that Blizzard will turn it around, if they can't even accept that the systems they made, and the community they built is very toxic.


    The only good thing that is coming from this is..the developers in ff14 are smart enough to see what systems, and tools help breed toxic games. and the mistakes WOW made this game does not.
    I believe this is now the 2nd Blizzard dev that made a shot at Asmon in a month. The previous guy ended up locking their twitter, and removed their blizzard bio from their verified account because they got doxxed.

    Can you imagine the outcry if any of the SE devs went on twitter made shots or under locked posts saying they hate a FFXIV streamer? It just goes to show how deep the toxic culture exists at Blizzard, you don't do this to paying customers, regardless of your personal opinion. The court of public opinion is already largely against the company at the moment, these little dev ants just are making it worse.
    (4)

  5. #1145
    Player
    Holystyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Posts
    39
    Character
    Saint Sinner
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 35
    Pretty sure X person replying is typing for themselves unless they state otherwise.
    I do not think person talking own opinions from own account is any sign of what is company opinion on X or Y neither meaning of it.

    How is " toxic culture exists at Blizzard" when people personal opinions and stuff are being attacked and doxxed for them are they the toxic ones ?

    Someone has twisted morals it seems.
    And then Bald one minions are in full force attacking everyone they see because their mighty Bald One read/had different opinion on other people.
    (0)

  6. #1146
    Player
    CaptainLagbeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,307
    Character
    Rhaya Jakkya
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    I haven't gone through all of Asmongold's stuff, because quite frankly I don't care enough about WoW to do so.

    And I didn't start watching from the very start of him playing FF 14, but what I have seen of him I haven't seen any toxicity...
    (2)

  7. #1147
    Player
    Kesh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    6
    Character
    Vera Delarosa
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 54
    He's just edgy. What most people call toxic are his performative rants at people or things, since he'll call them stupid, fucking idiots, etc. But anyone who watches him often knows he's just screwing around and overreacting on purpose.

    Hating him became a way to signal that you aren't toxic in certain circles, although the anti-toxicity people are themselves one the most corrosive aspects of the community.
    (5)

  8. #1148
    Player
    Ilenya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,508
    Character
    Aurora Vlondett
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Hasn't he gone on record to say he can be/is toxic?
    (0)

  9. #1149
    Player
    CaptainLagbeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,307
    Character
    Rhaya Jakkya
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilenya View Post
    Hasn't he gone on record to say he can be/is toxic?
    Well. Yes, he has said he can get toxic.

    But is he constantly toxic? No.


    A person occasionally getting toxic is just normal human behavior.

    The only people he is toxic towards with any regularity is WoW's devs, who from the looks of things spend more time crawling around cubicles while drunk than listening to player feedback.
    (3)

  10. #1150
    Player
    Snorky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    655
    Character
    Akiimi Akagane
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard View Post
    Well. Yes, he has said he can get toxic.

    But is he constantly toxic? No.


    A person occasionally getting toxic is just normal human behavior.

    The only people he is toxic towards with any regularity is WoW's devs, who from the looks of things spend more time crawling around cubicles while drunk than listening to player feedback.
    Well said!
    (1)
    Enjoy Life you only get one.

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