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  1. #1
    Player
    aodhan_ofinnegain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    545
    Character
    Aodhan O'finnegain
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Paladin already has enough utility as it is, it does not need a raise, nor do I want to see the raise tax be thrown onto Paladin, let alone have people use that as an excuse to lower Paladin's overall damage output. "Paladin has a raise so should do less damage than all the other tanks" for a situation that may or may not occur, even though mp and GCDs lost isn't enough of a cost. Granted SMN and RDM have finally started moving away from this design choice thankfully, much of that mindset still is here.

    As for Clemency, in normal content, I find it is extremely rare that I ever have a need for it, much the same in Savage and Ultimates, with the exception of prog. Sure, there are times when healers go down and you might have to use it. Overall Clemency is very situational in nature, great prog tool, great solo play tool, terrible normal play skill.

    But adding Clemency to oGCD will very much remove it's ability to spam, if oath gauge is the cost, if mp is still a cost a potency nerf would be required, and lastly as an oGCD it would be moved into the ability category instead of a spell so would not gain any effect from Requiescat.
    (4)

  2. #2
    Player Mithron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    699
    Character
    Mithron Scarlet
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain View Post
    Paladin already has enough utility as it is, it does not need a raise, nor do I want to see the raise tax be thrown onto Paladin, let alone have people use that as an excuse to lower Paladin's overall damage output. "Paladin has a raise so should do less damage than all the other tanks" for a situation that may or may not occur, even though mp and GCDs lost isn't enough of a cost. Granted SMN and RDM have finally started moving away from this design choice thankfully, much of that mindset still is here.

    As for Clemency, in normal content, I find it is extremely rare that I ever have a need for it, much the same in Savage and Ultimates, with the exception of prog. Sure, there are times when healers go down and you might have to use it. Overall Clemency is very situational in nature, great prog tool, great solo play tool, terrible normal play skill.

    But adding Clemency to oGCD will very much remove it's ability to spam, if oath gauge is the cost, if mp is still a cost a potency nerf would be required, and lastly as an oGCD it would be moved into the ability category instead of a spell so would not gain any effect from Requiescat.
    I think PLD should have the lowest damage as utility should be traded for damage. Thematically speaking, PLD should have most utility and should be lowest DPS of the four tanks. This is good, healthy, proper game design in my opinion. RDM and SMN should have lower DPS than BLM since BLM offers no utility. Having a Raise would be massive utility when pugging, and save a lot of wipes.

    Clemancy is never used because it's GCD and MP, making it a massive DPS loss. Adding it to Oath Gauge, no MP cost and OGCD means it's actually usable without lowering DPS, and giving you a fourth tool to use Oath Gauge on: Sheltron, Intervene, Cover, or Clemancy. I think this would make PLD a lot more enjoyable and better for utility. It shouldn't be affected by Requiscat as that should be for DPS rotation only, not utility, in my opinion.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    ItMe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Lumsa Lomsa
    Posts
    4,178
    Character
    Iiiiiiiiiiit's Meeeee
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithron View Post
    I think PLD should have the lowest damage as utility should be traded for damage. Thematically speaking, PLD should have most utility and should be lowest DPS of the four tanks. This is good, healthy, proper game design in my opinion.
    Considering how damage centric this game is, if any class did notably less damage than the other classes in its role it would be dropped like a rock. This has happened before and we have every reason to believe it would happen again.

    Additionally, more utility wouldn't be a very compelling tradeoff. Maybe it could be a useful prog tool for when everyone is messing up, but as soon as people have it down and are actually pushing for a clear the PLD's lower damage is just a liability and they'd be better off swapping jobs at that point.

    If PLD had more/better utility to make up for the lower damage, it might lead to some clever cheese strats, but that would still regulate the job to a niche pick you'd not only use just in certain fights, but also only if your static/PUG is behind the idea. And "niche" is not a healthy place for a class to be.

    It's also questionable how much the utility would be useful to pugging in the first place. We can't say until we see the proposed tools.

    But extra survivability and better prog tools aren't even all that valued. You mention a rez and the casters next:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithron View Post
    RDM and SMN should have lower DPS than BLM since BLM offers no utility. Having a Raise would be massive utility when pugging, and save a lot of wipes.
    However, when parties were recruiting for TEA, Red Mages were being flat out rejected from groups. Sure, the Rez Mage and can be instrumental in keeping your pull together, but even for prog BLM and the overturned SMN were just bringing so much more damage that RDMs got widely passed up.
    Sure, that's Ultimate content, but that's also the Rez Mage being rejected from the most lethal level of content.

    I can see where you're coming from, especially from a thematic standpoint, but I don't think FF14's design could allow a "this is the defensive tank" sort of class to succeed.
    (1)
    Last edited by ItMe; 08-10-2021 at 12:03 PM.