What is one aspect of MMO design past or present that wish was added or taken away.

[Shougun]

I read that entire thing and it answered nothing.

So I repeat:

With no aetheryte crystal, how do you get from Limsa to Porta Pretoria.??

45 minutes travel time? You serious?? I dont have that much time to waste on travel alone in a pay to play MMO.

My time is valuable. Is yours?

You clearly did not read it. No point did I say 45 minutes of travel time, and I also clarified on such thing as too much. As well I had a specific point on the purpose of my post. I'm sure you got it from the last line 30 + 15 minutes of /travel/ time. That means 30 minutes of content and 15 minutes of travel time (15 does not equal 45), furthermore if you reread the sentence you would see I don't want people being gated out of content because of things like that. So misread twice in a row.

You are not reading you are just responding with an irrelevant question given the context of the statements. If you intended someone else to answer your question because you wanted their idea on the matter then rather than this post I'm responding to you could have just said I wasn't the target audience. As my posts to you have strictly orbited around the importance of travel and that it is clearly gameplay. But in terms of my perspective on the matter of travel I've answered it in depth, the question of porta is irrelevant to the matter at large given my vision of the wish thread and even if it was relevant Shurrikhan answered it well too.

Read it again if you were interested in discussing, you have all your answers in the post. Shurrikhan clearly understood the intent and they were an observer.

[Vyrerus]

I see that a question I put earlier has been dodged or ignored.

You need to get to Porta Pretoria from Limsa. No aetheryte crystal..so HOW do you get there?

Walk?

You take the ferry next to the Arcanist's guild to Western Thanalan, then you walk or ride your mount to Central Thanalan then to Eastern Thanalan then to Southern Shroud then to Eastern Shroud. Talk to the Baelsar's Wall Twin Adders Escort, and he will dump you at Castrum Oriens. From there you travel south across the bridge where Ananta Beast Dailies are, further east until you hit the zone line to The Peaks. Continue eastward, zone into The Lochs. Bam, you're at Porta Praetoria.

Alternatively, and a bit more quickly, you can take the Airship from Limsa Lominsa to Gridania. Then you can zone to Old Gridania, go over to East Shroud from the Ferry by the Lancer's Guild. Talk to the Twin Adders Agent, Castrum Oriens -> The Peaks -> The Lochs. Bam.


It's really not that hard, though they are somewhat far away.

[Hazama999]

Taken away:
Queueing to individual dungeons through DF. Would like players to physically be at the dungeon entrance before they step in.

[Ramesses]

I for one if I had to pick something I know people will call me crazy I do wish they would design dungeons around the use of CC and incorporate mechanics like having a dps be forced to kite a group of mobs around or something. In short I wish dungeon design took job function and utility into question, even though this would push a meta comp I would be okay with that.

I get this is a bad idea and would suck but yeah I am weird like that.

For me, it will have to be dying to insanely over-levelled rabbits (Rarabs) back in FFXI-- literally one-shot kills on players-- and then losing an insane amount of experience points (I even de-leveled a few times because of that).

Till this day, I still have very colourful words for whoever amoung the Dev team dreamt up that insidious concept.

[VelKallor]

in which case you ride across two zones to reach Praetoria)

Ride on the ground through two full zones and spend 30 minutes to mine a node that takes me 5 mins to actually do? Thats a joke, right?

In WOW, the failed 16 year old model of MMO, you spend 85% travel and 15% ( if even that ) DOING anything

In FF 14 which is MODERN game design, you spend 10% traveling and 90% doing things.

Which one of these, do you think, id be willing to pay for?

Or had you forgotten that we are PAYING to play, hence whatever time we have is in fact valuable and is to be used doing things in game, not wasting useless time getting to wherever it is you want to be?

When I commute, as I did for years on end, I dont look out the window and marvel that the blade of grass I didnt see the other day, my head is down in my Ipad, reading. I pay attention after I get to wherever it is I am going once I get there. Tedium is not gameplay, tedium is make work, wasted time and effort for its own sake, and has no part in modern MMO gameplay.

Both in singleplayer and in MMO's, instant travel is now a staple of any framework, e.g ESO which has teleports everywhere, any and all of the Bethesda games , Skyrim etc that again have instant travel a anywhere you want. WOW used to have ( still has actually ) loop de loop de loop "flightpaths" that can, and I am not joking, leave you time to go make a full meal and by the time you get back, you still wont have landed.

There also, shockingly, happens to be an airship dock at Limsa Lominsa.

That goes to Gridania and Ul'Dah..not to Porta Pretoria which is in Othard.

Even the ferry at Limsa takes you to Kugane, not Porta Pretoria. or Oriens, or Ala Gannha, or the Ala Mhigo Quarter. None of those, you still have to get to Pretoria from Kugane.

This is all academic anyway. it aint happening.

[Aurida]

This is all academic anyway. it aint happening.

That IS the point of the thread and some of the posts have included disclaimers that most of the user base would not like the additions of things they personally miss from other MMOs.

You're free to hold the completely reasonable opinion that tedious game design is a waste of your time, just like other posters here are free to hold the completely reasonable opinion that the old-school MMO design of mandating party play with a dangerous overworld and un-soloable content plus lengthy travel times was ultimately better at creating a lasting social aspect to those games than the modern game design of 'freely queue for a dungeon that's trivially completable in 15 minutes with people you will not talk to or see again'

There's a laundry list of reasons why you might find old concepts like travel time, the elemental weakness system, or EXP loss on death to be antiquated and bad, but it's not constructive to this particular conversation to bring them up

[Shurrikhan]

Ride on the ground through two full zones and spend 30 minutes to mine a node that takes me 5 mins to actually do? Thats a joke, right?

You know what, okay, I'll go ahead and make the run on ground mount alone and clock it. 5 minutes and 13 seconds, including the 5 loading screens (->Fringes, Velodyna, ->Peaks, Specula, and ->Lochs). [No, Porta Praetoria is not in Othard. It's in Gyr Albania, at the western edge of the Lochs.]

In WOW, the failed 16 year old model of MMO, you spend 85% travel and 15% ( if even that ) DOING anything.

Maybe if you purposely took a quest that took you across the world, only to then take another that did the same. Normal folks, you see, simply left a given zone when they had no more use for it. And they didn't typically come back.

I think that's what you're missing here. If the game weren't so much about teleport-menu, 15s flight, mine, teleport-menu, 15s flight, mine in the first place, there would be no reason to go from Limsa to the Lochs just to mine a node. You'd instead simply have each zone be a longer, more involved, and ultimately chaptered experience.

For going from one side of the world to another just to talk to so-and-so for the MSQ, you could literally just talk to the NPC you're going with or departing from, say "I'm ready," or "I'll be going now", and time-skip to that other location. Enabling rampant globetrotting or locational ADD in the MSQ, while not exactly commendable in itself, doesn't require that the whole world lose its sense of space.

[Nyarlha]

Man this thread if full of boomers missing the terrible EQ/FFXI era designs.

And I say that as someone who played EQ for years.

[Awha]

Ride on the ground through two full zones and spend 30 minutes to mine a node that takes me 5 mins to actually do? Thats a joke, right?

In WOW, the failed 16 year old model of MMO, you spend 85% travel and 15% ( if even that ) DOING anything

In FF 14 which is MODERN game design, you spend 10% traveling and 90% doing things.

Which one of these, do you think, id be willing to pay for?

Or had you forgotten that we are PAYING to play, hence whatever time we have is in fact valuable and is to be used doing things in game, not wasting useless time getting to wherever it is you want to be?

When I commute, as I did for years on end, I dont look out the window and marvel that the blade of grass I didnt see the other day, my head is down in my Ipad, reading. I pay attention after I get to wherever it is I am going once I get there. Tedium is not gameplay, tedium is make work, wasted time and effort for its own sake, and has no part in modern MMO gameplay.

Both in singleplayer and in MMO's, instant travel is now a staple of any framework, e.g ESO which has teleports everywhere, any and all of the Bethesda games , Skyrim etc that again have instant travel a anywhere you want. WOW used to have ( still has actually ) loop de loop de loop "flightpaths" that can, and I am not joking, leave you time to go make a full meal and by the time you get back, you still wont have landed.



That goes to Gridania and Ul'Dah..not to Porta Pretoria which is in Othard.

Even the ferry at Limsa takes you to Kugane, not Porta Pretoria. or Oriens, or Ala Gannha, or the Ala Mhigo Quarter. None of those, you still have to get to Pretoria from Kugane.

This is all academic anyway. it aint happening.

Yes we all know this is not happening and most of us know these ideas would never work today. Not sure what exactly you are trying to prove.

Man this thread if full of boomers missing the terrible EQ/FFXI era designs.

And I say that as someone who played EQ for years.

That may be the case, though personally WoW classic and TBC classic got me to appreciate some of the dated concepts of the past. Especially classic had a different feel hit a different note. Though yes it is largely a rose tinted goggles thread.

Anyways a system I wish they would add to MMO's I forgot which game has this but had our guild leader talk about it instead of anyone being able to help kill the mob you had to call for help but in doing so you forfeited all rewards and exp. I thought this would be fun stressful and annoying but fun.

[Vyrerus]

Man this thread if full of boomers missing the terrible EQ/FFXI era designs.

And I say that as someone who played EQ for years.

There's such a thing as a blessed inconvenience. There are literally people who met their current spouses due to that, "terrible" design.

There's also a difference between inconvenient and terrible.