The great streamer Asmongold is joining FFXIV

[ForteNightshade]

Monk, DRK, Astro, Ninja, PLD, Sch.. were all REALLY good in SB. Monk and ninja being the best there. In SB2 most if not all of them were gutted and aren't as fun as they were in SB. If you're going to grade an expac then it should be graded on all fronts and not just the parts people go goo goo over.

Everything you said is entirely subjective. This, however, is just... wrong. Stormblood Dark Knight is by and far considered the worst iteration of the jobs since its existence, Paladin has never been better and Monk was in the same place it is now: the dumpster. While the Astro cards have been controversial, their old iteration simply didn't work in the current landscape. Balance was objectively the best card and everything else was either weaker balance or straight up worthless, especially with TP being deleted and MP essentially being a non-issue. Ninja is entirely debatable. Some dislike the changes while plenty others feel it's in the best state its ever been in. What really baffles me is you listed all those examples and neglected to mention BRD, the one job that has unquestionably been despised in Shadowbringers over its Stormblood iteration.

[Controller]

Everything you said is entirely subjective. This, however, is just... wrong. Stormblood Dark Knight is by and far considered the worst iteration of the jobs since its existence, Paladin has never been better and Monk was in the same place it is now: the dumpster. While the Astro cards have been controversial, their old iteration simply didn't work in the current landscape. Balance was objectively the best card and everything else was either weaker balance or straight up worthless, especially with TP being deleted and MP essentially being a non-issue. Ninja is entirely debatable. Some dislike the changes while plenty others feel it's in the best state its ever been in. What really baffles me is you listed all those examples and neglected to mention BRD, the one job that has unquestionably been despised in Shadowbringers over its Stormblood iteration.

You're forgetting SB had the best version of monk by far. The TK monk. IT wasn't MY fav but tons of streamers loved it and so did a few players in the game. Monk compared to everything else has always been in a shit can, but SB monk was one of the better ones. Same with Ninja and Astro. They were the best compared to NOW. Give or take some things. I forgot about BRD to bbe honest.. but thats a point in my favor if I take that in.

I just remembered what I kept seeing on the forums and youtube videos during HW and SB. Details asides I just wanted to say SB isn't as bad as people scream about. It feels like people forget how bad parts of HW were actually. I can't forget it because I was there and remembered EVERYONE complaining about the devs taking a VERY long vacation, the stupid choice your character throwing the eyes off the cliff, how lame the Warriors of Darkness were in the end. I don't care how they were redeemed in SB2 because they STILL were lackluster in HW.

[RyuDragnier]

You're forgetting SB had the best version of monk by far. The TK monk. IT wasn't MY fav but tons of streamers loved it and so did a few players in the game. Monk compared to everything else has always been in a shit can, but SB monk was one of the better ones. Same with Ninja and Astro. They were the best compared to NOW. Give or take some things.

It was still the worst version of MNK because of Riddle of Fire slowing down the GCD. NOTHING will make that good, NOTHING.

[Controller]

It was still the worst version of MNK because of Riddle of Fire slowing down the GCD. NOTHING will make that good, NOTHING.

I'm just going by what I heard from streamers and videos. Mr. Happy quitting monk in SB2 says it all to me. He main monk in SB. Me saying it was the best it was is not saying it was perfect. SB monk still had more highs then lows compared to monk in all the other expacs. But that's my opinion and a few streamers opinion. It wasn't PERFECT. But it was better. I LOVED TP being gone.

[Kolsykol]

You're forgetting SB had the best version of monk by far. The TK monk. IT wasn't MY fav but tons of streamers loved it and so did a few players in the game. Monk compared to everything else has always been in a shit can, but SB monk was one of the better ones. Same with Ninja and Astro. They were the best compared to NOW. Give or take some things. I forgot about BRD to bbe honest.. but thats a point in my favor if I take that in.

I just remembered what I kept seeing on the forums and youtube videos during HW and SB. Details asides I just wanted to say SB isn't as bad as people scream about. It feels like people forget how bad parts of HW were actually. I can't forget it because I was there and remembered EVERYONE complaining about the devs taking a VERY long vacation, the stupid choice your character throwing the eyes off the cliff, how lame the Warriors of Darkness were in the end. I don't care how they were redeemed in SB2 because they STILL were lackluster in HW.

Eh, I think some people were just happy that they *actually got to use TK for once*.
I think that had way more to do with it, which is moreso like a bandaid to shitty game design with MNK which it has been suffering from since forever.

I've played MNK since ARR, and I think that on a whole MNK is the best now than it has ever been when it comes to it's core.
And yes I've seen and been through every iteration.
The issue is that it feels too repetitive imo which doesn't fit the theme and fantasy and I also wish we could get Howling Fist back and there's some pointless bloat like the fist stances.
They should just merge them together into one and/ or make it a passive.
I actually did like the concept of fist stance dancing ( including with Shoulder Tackle ) I just didn't like how it worked in effect it was just a turn on and forget still I wanted it to be an actual part of the rotation actively.

I think that in Endwalker we're going to get some kind of a mechanic to FINALLY '' complete '' MNK.
My worry is just that it's going to be too generic and just another timed mechanic where you just have this 30-60 sec cycle or something, I want MNK to be more dynamic and less rigid.
Way back they used to think of MNK as a '' combo master '' and I want them to use that as a framework, our burst phase is a good example of that I just want it to be less monotonous.
Make the actual rotation more dynamic and indicative of MNK's speed.

[Jandor]

Everything you said is entirely subjective. This, however, is just... wrong. Stormblood Dark Knight is by and far considered the worst iteration of the jobs since its existence

Most people prefer HW DRK over StB DRK, but ShB DRK is even less popular than either as far as I can tell.

People talked about salvaging StB DRK, they talk about starting over with ShB DRK.

[RyuDragnier]

Most people prefer HW DRK over StB DRK, but ShB DRK is even less popular than either as far as I can tell.

People talked about salvaging StB DRK, they talk about starting over with ShB DRK.

HW DRK was still the top the mountain. Managing MP, cooldowns, your DoT (I miss you Scourge...), your enmity combo and DPS combo (I miss having a 2nd combo...), and the absolute joy felt when you pulled it all off. SB DRK was a travesty that spat on all that was DRK, and I'm glad that evil monstrosity is dead. I much prefer ShB, which while not near the glory of HW, is still infinitely better than SB DRK (which made me quit playing DRK). In general I despise SB because it destroyed DRK and MNK, and SCH barely survived launch for me (lack of Energy Drain and the MP costs made it a real struggle).

By the way, I only say SB destroyed MNK because it was basically going from GL3 to no GL stacks in terms of how slow your GCDs became while under Riddle of Fire, and that was supposed to be your BURST window. It'd be like RDM having a burst window where they lose double cast and have to just slowly charge up the spells. That isn't fun, that's pure annoyance.

[ForteNightshade]

You're forgetting SB had the best version of monk by far. The TK monk. IT wasn't MY fav but tons of streamers loved it and so did a few players in the game. Monk compared to everything else has always been in a shit can, but SB monk was one of the better ones. Same with Ninja and Astro. They were the best compared to NOW. Give or take some things. I forgot about BRD to bbe honest.. but thats a point in my favor if I take that in.

Contrary to popular belief, TK Monk was incredibly divisive. A lot of people absolutely hated it due to the sheer rigidness of the rotation. If you messed up even the slightest part, your damage instantly tanked with no recovery. What made it worse is there was no real reward. It still stood in the looming shadow of Dragoon and Ninja. So all the work meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. You also keep bringing up Ninja but its Shadowbringers rework is largely considered a success. There are some hold out opinions but overall Ninja is seen positive. Astro less so, especially by the non-raid community.

You shouldn't rely on streamers to determine opinions. MrHappy quitting Monk had nothing to do with the Shadowbringers version but rather he was fed up with the constantly changing the job only for it to suffer again. He didn't even like the TK version.

Most people prefer HW DRK over StB DRK, but ShB DRK is even less popular than either as far as I can tell.

People talked about salvaging StB DRK, they talk about starting over with ShB DRK.

It isn't. Dark Arts spam Dark Knight was despised. Practically every consensus done vaults DRK higher throughout this expansion despite its rework being divisive. Most of Shadowbringers DRK dislike comes from Delirium being a lazy copy of IR and Blood Weapon no longer having a speed boost. But it's still preferred over Stormblood.

Heavensward Dark Knight though has been the runaway favourite for years. It baffles me why the devs simply won't go back to that foundation.

[Jandor]

HW DRK was still the top the mountain. Managing MP, cooldowns, your DoT (I miss you Scourge...), your enmity combo and DPS combo (I miss having a 2nd combo...), and the absolute joy felt when you pulled it all off. SB DRK was a travesty that spat on all that was DRK, and I'm glad that evil monstrosity is dead.

It isn't. Dark Arts spam Dark Knight was despised. Practically every consensus done vaults DRK higher throughout this expansion despite its rework being divisive. Most of Shadowbringers DRK dislike comes from Delirium being a lazy copy of IR and Blood Weapon no longer having a speed boost. But it's still preferred over Stormblood.

Stormblood Dark Knight was better, and the Shadowbringers version being more popular in definitely not the impression I get. Like 50% of the tank forum has been complaints about Dark Knight for the past 2 years.

[Kolsykol]

Stormblood Dark Knight was better, and the Shadowbringers version being more popular in definitely not the impression I get. Like 50% of the tank forum has been complaints about Dark Knight for the past 2 years.

I actually liked Dark Arts spam, but I do remember people relentlessly hating on it.