What is one aspect of MMO design past or present that wish was added or taken away.

[Shougun]

Travel is not gameplay a. . .

Travel is absolutely gameplay, not only is it a global gameplay when discussing the gaming media at large (Death Stranding, literally paramount importance to the game, but the 'journey' of travel in games like. .. Journey, lol, Red Dead 2 makes traveling an important element of the gameplay, and many discuss how the first time things are revealed to them via their great journey through an area, many space games with (imo) insane journeys that their playerbase loves, entire mods dedicated on massive open sRPGs to make traveling a bigger element) but locally in the space of FF games as well including FFXIV. Many FF have some emphasis on travel, specifically the progression of travel in most cases, but a game like FFXV took particular importance of the idea of travel and the experience it can provide- it was absolutely a consideration to the play of game. On FFXIV it's a clear note given they require people to go on foot at first as it provides scale and exploration to the world that straight flying access would obliterate (a system, which could be coincidence like most things, that before flying was implemented I had been asking for- pre-flying we discussed flying and I thought "would be super cool but it needs to have limitations before it mows down exploration" and one of the many items of spaghetti I throw at the wall was one very akin we have now, again doesn't mean it was my feedback that did it, but that there was a clear understanding of the importance that travel has on gameplay. Of course given the age and amount of content in FFXIV it does present a challenge for players in older areas trying to catch up and not spending time to get their currents... lol, but it works wonderfully when you're doing the content new).

Travel is a part of gameplay. Locally, globally, micro and macro. Now one might say travel is not my type of gameplay, like some people love MOBA pvp and others loathe it, some like crafting some don't, the type of gameplay may be non-desirable to some, but unequivocally travel makes elements of gameplay, and particularly can make highly enjoyable highly appreciated forms of gameplay (for the audience that likes that type of thing, it is proven appreciated form of gameplay it's not a "I think some might like it" we /know/ some love it).

Personally I think FFXIV doesn't do enough with the joy of motion, but that's partially an engine problem- as we see with something like Kugane tower where part of the issue with the puzzle is simply things are not quite as you'd expect (and you're half fighting the engine than you're innate skill of what you think the jump would take).

I do think too liberal use of flying or teleportation can have impacts on the gameplay narrative an environment invokes, but some people don't give a hoot about that. I do, I wish it was more important. But also I'm not into FFXI levels of "takes 1 hour to get to the jungle, 2 if you missed your boats". Should be in the single digits of time, and like I said the 'joy' of movement. Guild Wars 2 does some neat things with their puzzles and mount movement systems that is quite fun as an example, though of course given our current situation you couldn't just copy paste it. There is also a sense of optionality, players could just not use the teleport system currently in FFXIV- I think that works sometimes for some players, but there is also a sense of community / not being able to choose the non-optional choice (if you knew using fire on a boss was going to kill it 200% faster but you loved the water tree of skills, most people, even those who loved the water tree, are going to use fire). Of course balance, audience, it's all important to consider.. and there will be some who think "that's lame, I don't play FFXIV for forced Verminion" and others would be like "yes finally my favorite mini-game is a story requirement" lol.

So I don't mean to say it's everyone's cup of tea (and it seems like not yours, which is totally fine!), but that it's an element of gameplay that not only consistently gets very clear attention by the devs but also receives a lot of praise by a set of players as you can read about how it impacted their journey and approach to the game.

Both progression of movement and joy of movement are things I think FFXIV could have done better (context of coming from 1.0 to ARR makes it all make sense, but that doesn't mean one can't wish for more); however, both at this point in the game also need to be approached carefully and I think most changes would do better in a new mmo. Certainly more accurate movement I think would be fine, but if they went hog wild with too many new movement changes it might start to make it feel more aRPG than some people were expecting and ideally changing the carpet underneath people's feet is done super carefully.

I wonder if stamina on flying could be a thing to add (different game, or make the next Eureka) to the thought of navigating the environment and opportunity to allow each environment's narrative speak (environments are a key main character of gameplay, imo, and I appreciate when game companies treat them as such). Some system that allows you to get to where you need to go without thinking of throwing your keyboard out of the window but yet also think about what you're doing such that the solution to every problem is not just "hold space bar, hold w, get to location".

There is imo a sweet spot of travel to time cost, and it is going to vary depending on target audience, and while I think large changes to FFXIV would be disruptive I think the same audience here would be fine in another mmo if there was a shift from 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

[MonteCristo]

Open world.

Elder Scrolls Online is a title most people sleep on and it has problems but its open world is amazing. That kinda open world with Final Fantasy XIV\\\\'s story etc would be amazing.

This........

[Gabadabs]

We have already explored it all on the ground via MSQ, remember?

Its artificially gating time and gameplay by delaying or lengthening travel time to an insane degree. All it does is making anything you want to do take a hell of a lot longer. Tedium isnt gameplay. And its an instant turnoff. Any game that doesnt or wont respect a players time tends to lose players.

i dont want to have to spend an hour ingame to do something that takes me fifteen minutes. .

Try a hunt that starts in say Lakeland and ends in the Tempest. No flight = no hunts

All it will do is make everything take a hell of a lot longer which is the WOW concept that has utterly FAILED.

Trust me, I agree with you! We get shipped back and forth across these zones enough as is to have gotten a full appreciation of them. I am a big fan of teleportation as a travel feature.

[TaleraRistain]

+Isekai mechanics.

"I need to kill Chaos"

"I'm here to kill Chaos"

"Where is Chaos"

Oh and Awha, we don't agree much, but I sorely miss crowd control in MMOs. I was an enchanter in EQ. But I don't think they belong in the current MMO mindset, unfortunately. That's probably the one thing that would make me jump to a new game in a heartbeat, though.

[Aurida]

(...) On FFXIV it's a clear note given they require people to go on foot at first as it provides scale and exploration to the world that straight flying access would obliterate (...)

I think this is the bit worth zeroing in on when it comes to discussion of 'travel' in this game in particular since by the time you get flying to 'skip' the exploration, you've already done all the exploration that's relevant to the MSQ... plus a few side trips for aether currents and the sidequests which do enough of a job of fleshing out a zone on a first pass, so that any subsequent re-treading of that same area goes from 'meaningful exploration' to 'pointless time-wasting busy work,' which FF14 bless its heart is extraordinarily dedicated to obliterating.

Like putting aside all the stuff about 'joy of motion' because sure it doesn't feel great or compelling just to engage with movement mechanics, the point of travel in most games that have it as a focus is because that's where some of the meaningful gameplay happens. When you're made to go back to zones you've already previously explored for a story beat, it's not because something meaningful has happened in that zone to engage with on the way through or because there's going to be some kind of random event to participate in.

Indeed this was also the case in older MMOs with a 'hazardous overworld' but because those games as a genre were defined by time-wasting tedium the gameplay mostly involved wasting as little of your time as possible getting hassled by overworld trash.

Unless we get a specific, serious overhaul of every overworld zone to add a ton more meaningful, engaging gameplay there's simply no reason why the game should ever force you to spend more time there

[SwordswornFox]

More usage of player based CC
More reasons for healers to Esuna to purge debuffs and make vuln stacks 'semi-purgable'(can't get rid of all stacks but every Esuna will remove a stack other than the last)
The ability to DF as BLU in random content(even if you have to 'preload' and lock in a heal/tank/dps skill set to do so)
Slightly more fluid aggro system(I do like working some to keep aggro)

[Novae]

+ Combo fields à la GW2.
+ Open world elite mobs/areas for rare crafting mats.
+ Server pride. I really miss it from early GW2/Aion servers.
+ World chat.
+ GW2 glamour system

- Fanservice for more FF14 original content

[Lunalepsy]

I for one if I had to pick something I know people will call me crazy I do wish they would design dungeons around the use of CC and incorporate mechanics like having a dps be forced to kite a group of mobs around or something. In short I wish dungeon design took job function and utility into question, even though this would push a meta comp I would be okay with that.

I get this is a bad idea and would suck but yeah I am weird like that.

What to bring back
-Sense of danger
-Elemental grid/table
-Card system
-Uniqueness (every class has a purpose)
-Unique gear that can be traded, but rare to find.
-Classic RNG (loot tables, percentages)
-Open world content (monsters are unique, they all have specific loot tables,the market would be diverse)
-Stats system (allocate points into your stats)

What to get rid of
-Homogenization/balance (everyone does the same thing)
-Recycled content
-Min/Maxing
-Cyclic gear (gear that gets thrown out with a new expansion/patch)
-Trading walls (let us trade every piece of gear)
-Lobby worlds (FFXIV is one huge lobby)

[MonteCristo]

What to bring back
-Sense of danger
-Elemental grid/table
-Card system
-Uniqueness (every class has a purpose)
-Unique gear that can be traded, but rare to find.
-Classic RNG (loot tables, percentages)
-Open world content (monsters are unique, they all have specific loot tables,the market would be diverse)
-Stats system (allocate points into your stats)

What to get rid of
-Homogenization/balance (everyone does the same thing)
-Recycled content
-Min/Maxing
-Cyclic gear (gear that gets thrown out with a new expansion/patch)
-Trading walls (let us trade every piece of gear)
-Lobby worlds (FFXIV is one huge lobby)

<3 all of the above

[Shougun]

I think this is the bit worth zeroing in on when it comes to discussion of 'travel' in this game in particular since by the time you get flying to 'skip' the exploration, you've already done all the exploration that's relevant to the MSQ... plus a few side trips for aether currents and the sidequests which do enough of a job of fleshing out a zone on a first pass, so that any subsequent re-treading of that same area goes from 'meaningful exploration' to 'pointless time-wasting busy work,' which FF14 bless its heart is extraordinarily dedicated to obliterating.

Like putting aside all the stuff about 'joy of motion' because sure it doesn't feel great or compelling just to engage with movement mechanics, the point of travel in most games that have it as a focus is because that's where some of the meaningful gameplay happens. When you're made to go back to zones you've already previously explored for a story beat, it's not because something meaningful has happened in that zone to engage with on the way through or because there's going to be some kind of random event to participate in.

Indeed this was also the case in older MMOs with a 'hazardous overworld' but because those games as a genre were defined by time-wasting tedium the gameplay mostly involved wasting as little of your time as possible getting hassled by overworld trash.

Unless we get a specific, serious overhaul of every overworld zone to add a ton more meaningful, engaging gameplay there's simply no reason why the game should ever force you to spend more time there

I would agree to everything here, though of course one of the things I liked earlier here was better overworld ;P.

Naturally the two visions line up together then lol.

If your overworld is blank, you can still have some joy of movement I think, but... the purpose of it is relatively wasted in such a space. You want to make sure it's not 'just' travel. Though like I said many games, many huge, well received games, have made an intentional push to that joy of movement (or whatever catch phrase we want to use ). I just want to make sure it's clear that its not simply holding W to get from one spot to another, there is more to travel than a single system, though you really touched upon that in your post so I think in essence we're agreeing at least on what it means to have great travel / movement, even if maybe you're not so much into that idea itself (or not, not sure lol).

These systems all tie together, like how I listed roleplay like elements, given you had that, with a focus on ensuring movement and not just movement but the act of moving through the environment and what that meant, mixed with more overworld gameplay (or even dungeon, doesn't have to be just overworld like concepts).. they all start together and marry into a nice dish (imo). Maybe alone, blank slate world + amazing movement = too salty, or whatever. Of course.

Definitely issues that don't exist in a vacuum of design!