Petition: Remove EX Trials from Mentor Roulette

[RyuDragnier]

Mentoring in Ex fights doesn't mean to do all the work. I remember a discussion you were part of in the Tales from the Duty Finder thread. It was about tanks who don't even have the reflex to turn on their tank stance (even when aggro is clearly all over the place). This is the average experience in Mentor Roulette when it comes to Ex fights. People expect the fights to be a faceroll. You can't possibly tell me it's a mentor's job to put up with this. Besides, the logic of "You don't want to get an Ex trial? Don't queue for Mentor Roulette" is just so bad/flawed and short-sighted. Mentors in different other content can be such an asset if only by filling up the queues for older content, yet by this logic, we lose this advantage because of something like Ex trials. Throwing away a whole batch of good fruit because of 1 rotten fruit (Ex trials) doesn't sound too smart to me.

I have yet to see somebody do all the work in the EX fights you get from Mentor roulette. Simply because, and you forget, you are sync'd down and the fights have enrages, it is not possible for a single sync'd person to carry an EX run. Every run I get into everybody is trying to pull their own weight, because nobody queues up in DF for an EX expecting to get carried, you do unsync'd for that.

[Eien713]

Mentor Roulette without containg EXtrials is basically all previously existing roulettes stacked under a trenchcoat and serves no purpose other than to basically be Duty Roulette: All previous Roulettes. EX trials literally set it apart from the other roulettes.

Calling EX trials the rotten fruit in a batch sounds like you are feeling entitled to getting easy duties all the time rather than putting up with it, but that's technically none of my business, so you do you.

The problem is not the Ex trials themselves--it's the way those fights go in DF due to so many different reasons. And for your info, I did put up with all the Ex trials I got in Mentor Roulette and I'm actually done with the grind. Doesn't mean that didn't suck or that we shouldn't do something about them to make things better for both mentors and other players. If people were able to get their head in the game and follow instructions, you wouldn't have to spend 1 hour wiping over and over in an Ex trial (the easy ones). But what I saw in Ex fights in Mentor Roulette was people who keep dying to the same things and making the same mistakes over and over despite having things explained beforehand and/or dying/wiping to the same things over and over. The people you get in Ex trials are (most of the time) ones who don't even have a good grasp on the basics of the game, so how are they expected to tackle challenging content and within 1 hour?

I have yet to see somebody do all the work in the EX fights you get from Mentor roulette. Simply because, and you forget, you are sync'd down and the fights have enrages, it is not possible for a single sync'd person to carry an EX run. Every run I get into everybody is trying to pull their own weight, because nobody queues up in DF for an EX expecting to get carried, you do unsync'd for that.

And that's why you fail Ex trials in DF more often than not. Because people expect the fights to be easy and a faceroll, but then when it turns out they're not and you can't be carried through them, they either leave or the party fails the duty. I'll mention one of my Mentor Roulette experiences. I believe we got Sephirot this one time. That fight is awful to explain via text because there's so much going on, so I asked people to look up a guide while we waited for members (some people had left). I was willing to explain things or answer questions if people had any after looking up a guide. There was this one person who was watching a guide after I asked, and they commented that "Holy crap! There are so many things going on in the fight." I answered that yeah, which is why a guide (preferably a video) was way better than walls of text. I asked the others again to please watch a guide and said that the fight wasn't easy, and you know what 2 or 3 of them did? They bailed. If this doesn't prove they weren't expecting to make an effort, I don't know what does. I should also mention they hadn't said a single word the whole time, so it's not like they wanted to do the fight blind and I was against it.

[Baxcel]

Bottom line, Ex trials are better done with a group that's not forced to do them but rather chose to.

This right here.. im not saying you in general but.. when it comes to mentors in EX fights.. that entire group is there bu choice except the 1 or very rarely 2 mentors who got it from the roulette.. so as you say that entire group is there by choice and the mentors who leave or say do it in PF are the ones spoiling it for the group that patiently waited in queue for this Ex trial

[Nethereal]

I have yet to see somebody do all the work in the EX fights you get from Mentor roulette. Simply because, and you forget, you are sync'd down and the fights have enrages, it is not possible for a single sync'd person to carry an EX run. Every run I get into everybody is trying to pull their own weight, because nobody queues up in DF for an EX expecting to get carried, you do unsync'd for that.

Me(whm) and a tank basically just carried the party to the clear in Titan EX. There was only 2 dps not knocked off and we were on final rock phase, failed so we stacked center and cure 3'd to victory.
Sure they helped dps the goals when they were still alive(if they weren't stacking them) but they weren't carrying their own weight.
It's the opposite. A majority of everyone who queues for extremes are doing that because they don't know any better that's why extremes in DF are worse than extremes in PF.

This right here.. im not saying you in general but.. when it comes to mentors in EX fights.. that entire group is there bu choice except the 1 or very rarely 2 mentors who got it from the roulette.. so as you say that entire group is there by choice and the mentors who leave or say do it in PF are the ones spoiling it for the group that patiently waited in queue for this Ex trial

The fact you have a problem with mentors telling people to use the superior option available to complete content regardless of whether they stay or not really shows where you stand in this discussion.
You intentionally misinterpreting what was said so it could favor your stance on the issue is honestly funny.
If you refuse to acknowledge your contrarians at least stop commenting on the topic. It's honestly surprising just how many intellectually dishonest people are here on these forums.
It's so simple to just agree to disagree but all anyone is interested in doing is typing nonsense they don't even think about before it comes out of their head.

[sakkito]

Unpopular (among mentors) very long input here

Har Har, a bit of a prelude.
a) I am a mentor running mentor roulette (and that is the only time you will see me wearing burger king crown) daily.
b) I am running into arr ex's in my mentor roulette a lot recently. Also very much recently (like 2 months ago) I have stopped brexiting them on the entrance even if I have no experience with synched ver of them (6 years ago when I started this game, most of them were already compulsively run unsynched :P). I just say at the entrance that I am also a n00b and that I only did the instanced in ez ver, and trust the leaves to yeet me if they want a pro (never happened).

And you know what I have discovered?
a) We are so overgeared that actually, it is easy to clear most of them even if you make a few mistakes.
b) most of the mechanics are easy to dodge as they are mostly telegraphed as every other mechanic in this game. The peculiarities are kinda easy to learn by experiencing and trying different methods.
c) in the 80% of groups I joined there is at least 1 sprout who knows more or less what is supposed to be done and is very eager to play the raid leader and tell what to do and mark stuff.
d) they all specifically qued for this place which suggests they all want to learn so if you have something to say to -help- they will be more than happy to hear and listen.
e) in the last 2 months I have cleared based on my limited knowledge most of arr extremes (sans mog boi and ramuh) now all in the 60 mins span with at least 2 wipes but also patience and communication with the team :P

Obviously not all arr exes are like this nor are smooth or filled with nice leaves (my first ifrit ex mentor run I actually left because of n00b being verbally vile and me not wanting to surround myself with that) but any instance may end up as anything depending on people. And you - reader - probably will be one of them.

Also, something weighing on me, when I go into any roulette I make sure I have enough time to go to the max length of the instance. 60 mins is really not that long and mentor roulette is basically an alternative name of the 'helper roulette'. Whether it ends with success or not you are signing up to at least try to help. And yes, I do agree it is ridiculous to expect mentors to remember all specific mechanics of every single instance in the game. And if you put that kind of pressure on yourself and that is all you think you can offer as a mentor you are welcome to leave (and it should be ok). As the author of the thread mentioned she sees a mentor as capable of offering general gaming advice (hopefully above the one provided in the pop-up windows and the tournament thing available at level 15) - and I will assure you often even in exes this ends up being useful in order to clear while everything else is easy to sort out. Specific example being - my Shiva ex in prog. Very early on I have noticed (I am a main heal, I have loads of time to people watch) that we keep on dying to being cleaved, also to later mechanic where specific player is targetted for pushback (and everyone else didnt care about positioning). I did mention it after 2nd wipe. We figured it is the ot tank that keeps the pos wonky. I explained to him the importance of staying away from the rest of the group. We cleared. I consider it general gaming advice.


And btw, yes I get your point, been there had similar mind, tried to see other side of the bridge (ya know, stick it out) and found it not so bad. Plus it is not true we didn't sign up for this, like before I unlocked the burger king roulette I knew there are exes in it so if I queue I take this as a valid possibility. On top of it... if we end up yeeting all instances we are not happy with, mentor roulette will end up with only one instance - Sastasha. And that one, I absolutely am so -done-with (but no, gonna stay if I end up there lol).

To add to that, I hate the majority of 50s dunges so I stopped queuing for relevant roulette as I really don't wanna be there. You can guess what I have to suggest to resolve your issue.

I want to change this petition. I petition to change the idea we have around Mentors that they are supposed to be know-it-alls, rather than that they are supposed to lead by example, know the general game mechanics as well as basics of all jobs, they also should act accordingly (patience, compassion, knowing how to communicate). Or even better yeet the whole 3k mentor roulettes and the whole mentorship idea, give the mount for running 2 or 3 milion roulettes and call it a day. I don't need burger king crown to help ^^'.

/end of rant

[KageTokage]

I don't really feel obligated to stay for the full duration of a duty if the group isn't making tangible progress on the fight after several pulls.

A lot of people are just not ready to be running extremes, whether it be due to a lack of situational awareness, experience with their job, and/or ability to follow directions.

[Deceptus]

And that's why you fail Ex trials in DF more often than not. Because people expect the fights to be easy and a faceroll, but then when it turns out they're not and you can't be carried through them, they either leave or the party fails the duty. I'll mention one of my Mentor Roulette experiences. I believe we got Sephirot this one time. That fight is awful to explain via text because there's so much going on, so I asked people to look up a guide while we waited for members (some people had left). I was willing to explain things or answer questions if people had any after looking up a guide. There was this one person who was watching a guide after I asked, and they commented that "Holy crap! There are so many things going on in the fight." I answered that yeah, which is why a guide (preferably a video) was way better than walls of text. I asked the others again to please watch a guide and said that the fight wasn't easy, and you know what 2 or 3 of them did? They bailed. If this doesn't prove they weren't expecting to make an effort, I don't know what does. I should also mention they hadn't said a single word the whole time, so it's not like they wanted to do the fight blind and I was against it.

This is basically my exact reason I advocate for removing EX content from the DF. The average player (at least in NA) simply isn't prepared for that kind of content. It's and exercise in futility.

[Baxcel]

The fact you have a problem with mentors telling people to use the superior option available to complete content regardless of whether they stay or not really shows where you stand in this discussion.
You intentionally misinterpreting what was said so it could favor your stance on the issue is honestly funny.
If you refuse to acknowledge your contrarians at least stop commenting on the topic. It's honestly surprising just how many intellectually dishonest people are here on these forums.
It's so simple to just agree to disagree but all anyone is interested in doing is typing nonsense they don't even think about before it comes out of their head.

No I don't have a problem with them saying to try PF.. I have a problem with them saying that and then leaving.. or saying that and demanding they be kicked from the instance.. or saying that an going afk to not help with the fight..

The fact that you assume my problem is them just saying use PF is the issue.. because these issue is when people say that to spouts they typically don't stay to help them.. they typically don't join that PF they just told them to make.. they typically just re-queue into Mentor roulette for a guildheist or a dungeon for their easy clear..

There have been 0 dishonestly from my posts because all my comments speak from experiences from myself and others who have talked to me about the mentors they have met..

So no ill continue to comment on topics like this because it is something I'm passionate about.. because I actually want people to use the time they have to help these spouts or even normal players who are using DF for these trials.. they set their time to wait in the queue.. mentors who find themselves in those fights should of held the time for a 60-90min instance... they should think do I have the patience or time for an EX fight before they clicked join on Mentor Roulette.. if the answer is/was no.. they shouldn't have joined the queue

[Vahlnir]

This is basically my exact reason I advocate for removing EX content from the DF. The average player (at least in NA) simply isn't prepared for that kind of content. It's and exercise in futility.

Not prepared to jump right into it through the DF but a fair number learn in practice parties well enough. Sometimes it takes longer for them to learn depending on the person, but they usually get there. Mostly. I think what makes a huge difference is that practice parties tend to be a lot more chill, even if there's more wipes than progress, while DF queues are a bit more...tense all around.

[Nethereal]

No I don't have a problem with them saying to try PF.. I have a problem with me saying that and then leaving.. or saying that and demanding they be kicked from the instance.. or saying that an going afk to not help with the fight..

The fact that you assume my problem is them just saying use PF is the issue.. because these issue is when people say that to spouts they typically don't stay to help them.. they typically don't join that PF they just told them to make.. they typically just re-queue into Mentor roulette for a guildheist or a dungeon for their easy clear..

There have been 0 dishonestly from my posts because all my comments speak from experiences from myself and others who have talked to me about the mentors they have met..

So no ill continue to comment on topics like this because it is something I'm passionate about.. because I actually want people to use the time they have to help these spouts or even normal players who are using DF for these trials.. they set their time to wait in the queue.. mentors who find themselves in those fights should of held the time for a 60-90min instance... they should think do I have the patience or time for an EX fight before they clicked join on Mentor Roulette.. if the answer is/was no.. they shouldn't have joined the queue

I didn't assume anything.

If you don't have a problem with them just saying it then properly articulate yourself in your initial posts and it will save us both a lot of time.