This game has serious free-rider problems and it's getting worse. A suggestion.

[Wavaryen]

Well, consider yourself counted amongst the problem children, then. If you're going to justify it, then you're a part of it.

There is no problem, it is a pug setting and people can play how they want in said setting.

The rules and design is clear, and it being the best mmo on the market right now it is hard to argue with the results of a more relaxed mmorpg.


The rules protect these people. You can't shame them into doing better. You can't do anything to them, and if you try you get in trouble. So what makes you think how they playing is wrong with the game design as it is?


You all can not like it. That does not matter. These players are what the game protects and encourages. Who are you to say they are playing wrong? The developers has content made for people who want to try hard, and has content design for people want to be lazy.

[TeraRamis]

Who are you to say they are playing wrong?

I'm sorry, but morality is not relative - only truly sinister people manage to convince themselves to the contrary.

Furthermore, you know what trumps game rules? What *I* think. It doesn't matter a damn to me what the SE team believes when it comes to this issue (or any issue, for that matter) - my opinion always comes first; is always paramount to what I am told, instructed, or informed-of. In every way; on every matter, I call things as I see them.

And as such, I judge - and condemn - you by my own code, not theirs. I will continue to identify, speak out towards, and initiate vote kicks against loafers whether it pleases the powers that be or not. And similar to the fashion that I cannot stop you from being the... regrettable person that you clearly are, you cannot stop me from showing freeloaders like you the door.

[KageTokage]

I think the most stubbornly lazy person I've ever encountered was a SCH who was content to just leave me on auto-follow for the entire dungeon because their faerie was able to keep everyone alive on its own.

When I discreetly asked them if maybe they could help kill stuff, they bluntly refused then said if we didn't like it we could kick them. No guesses as to what happened next.

[Wavaryen]

I'm sorry, but morality is not relative - only truly sinister people manage to convince themselves to the contrary.

Furthermore, you know what trumps game rules? What *I* think. It doesn't matter a damn to me what the SE team believes when it comes to this issue (or any issue, for that matter) - my opinion always comes first; is always paramount to what I am told, instructed, or informed-of. In every way; on every matter, I call things as I see them.

And as such, I judge - and condemn - you by my own code, not theirs. I will continue to identify, speak out towards, and initiate vote kicks against loafers whether it pleases the powers that be or not. And similar to the fashion that I cannot stop you from being the... regrettable person that you clearly are, you cannot stop me from showing freeloaders like you the door.

I mean you can think what you want that is fine, but like i said the only way for you to get what you want is for the developers to agree with you. Since they don't, and you have no power to stop these players from playing like this.


And I respect that you do that, but the developers are the ones who get to say what is right and wrong in their game. You don't own this game, and it is a service. So you can voice how you feel and that is fine. That does not mean you are right. You can ask the developers to change it, but with how much profit they are making. They have no reason to care about your feelings on this matter.

[Caitsithhh]

Sandbaggers are just as bad as parser metaslaves.

Ffxiv forums at their peak ******, gg

[Wavaryen]

he's not just a part of it, he revels in doing it, see: his posts in every topic that's remotely similar to this

Also, I have made it clear that I understand why it bothers people, and I don't find any fun at all slacking. I enjoy my class so much that I enjoy doing the best I can with it.


That does not mean that I agree with your stance on other players and a pug settings. Like I said we don't own this game, and we are at the mercy of the whims of the developers who support people who do. Who am I to say that they can't play how they want?

[Caitsithhh]

There is no problem, it is a pug setting and people can play how they want in said setting.

The rules and design is clear, and it being the best mmo on the market right now it is hard to argue with the results of a more relaxed mmorpg.


The rules protect these people. You can't shame them into doing better. You can't do anything to them, and if you try you get in trouble. So what makes you think how they playing is wrong with the game design as it is?


You all can not like it. That does not matter. These players are what the game protects and encourages. Who are you to say they are playing wrong? The developers has content made for people who want to try hard, and has content design for people want to be lazy.

The problem is when they step into one another’s world and have zero respect for each other’s time.

If you don’t see a problem with that then there’s no saving you. Respect is something instilled long before ffxiv comes into your life.

That’s why I’m glad there’s a steep cliff into early progression. It serves as the dev’s wall to let the untold be glaring you right in the face.

This could become the best mmo for many years past this new love with slightly more levels of harder content but as it stands I don’t see that ever happening. So the “Wall” will be there to encourage you from the dev’s in a not so subtle way. On top of not getting respect from your fellow player when you decide to breach that wall when you have no business doing so.

You’ll lack vision as a whole til you decide to get better yourself and that’ll better the community as a whole one player at a time. Forums and ego will get you nowhere til you respect and love your craft.

[Wavaryen]

The problem is when they step into one another’s world and have zero respect for each other’s time.

If you don’t see a problem with that then there’s no saving you. Respect is something instilled long before ffxiv comes into your life.

That’s why I’m glad there’s a steep cliff into early progression. It serves as the dev’s wall to let the untold be glaring you right in the face.

This could become the best mmo for many years past this new love with slightly more levels of harder content but as it stands I don’t see that ever happening. So the “Wall” will be there to encourage you from the dev’s in a not so subtle way. On top of not getting respect from your fellow player when you decide to breach that wall when you have no business doing so.

You’ll lack vision as a whole til you decide to get better yourself and that’ll better the community as a whole one player at a time. Forums and ego will get you nowhere til you respect and love your craft.

I don't see a problem with it because that is how the game is design, The developers are ok with you getting a bad group. Your time is not anyone problem but your own. I respect other players by not breaking the rules of the game. That is all the respect I give. How you have fun, how you play. what you want out of the game. I don't care or don't need to care. I'm using you to get the content done, and I can't say a thing about the pace you go because you are not in my FC or LS that has a standard. I did not make the group, so the group has no standard.

[Caitsithhh]

I don't see a problem with it because that is how the game is design, The developers are ok with you getting a bad group. Your time is not anyone problem but your own. I respect other players by not breaking the rules of the game. That is all the respect I give. How you have fun, how you play. what you want out of the game. I don't care or don't need to care. I'm using you to get the content done, and I can't say a thing about the pace you go because you are not in my FC or LS that has a standard. I did not make the group, so the group has no standard.

Sadge… don’t change and wind up playing solo for everyone’s sake please

[Wavaryen]

Sadge… don’t change and wind up playing solo for everyone’s sake please

I mean you are the one that has a strange standard for a pug group. I've been playing MMORPG for a long time, and I find it weird that people still don't understand pug groups will never have a standard if it is being made by the game. At least my standard is much better for group play. I handle my business, and don't judge you for playing lazy, or bad, or even good. I at least understand what a pug group really is, and I don't get upset when my time gets wasted, or if I end up wasting other people time. It is a video game at the end of the day, and if your time has that much value, you should not be playing a mmo.



It is just that simple.