This game has serious free-rider problems and it's getting worse. A suggestion.

[Krotoan]

There's definitely a wrong way to help or offer advice to someone but you can't stop people from perceiving things a certain way. Like I said you're more likely to get 2nd hand reported than from the person you're actually conversing with.
There are people in this game who get offended for "teaching" sprouts and will say "you are the reason people don't like to tank" when explaining to sprouts that pulling mobs until you die isn't a bad thing, you won't know your limits unless you try, proceed troll your run by pulling mobs for the tank when they don't get their way and then not see the hypocrisy of their statements.

I can't stop someone from absolutely taking something the wrong way but I can make sure that objectively my statements and assistance are non-threatening, non-abusive, non-aggressive and use "clean" language. People CAN report you for anything but as those reports are investigated by human beings, it's exceedingly unlikely you will actually be dinged for something completely innocuous. 2nd hand reports don't count. GM's themselves have said unless the thing happened to you, the report doesn't count. People reacting badly is bad and happens for sure, but the important part is how you react back to that. As long as you don't escalate or break rules, you can just report them for being .. well.. jerks.

I personally don't find a reason for knowledge to be kept secret so I'm not going to go out of my way to whisper people after the fact.

I'm.. not sure what this means. You want to share the right way to do it but don't think you should have to "whisper" to make sure it's a 1 on 1 interaction?

It's not toxic, it's the reality of the situation. I wouldn't mind offering all the help in the world if strikes went away. But I don't know how long I'm going to play this game and I'm not risking a permanent strike on my account for nothing.
I have no strikes, and I refuse to give anyone a chance to give me one. That said it's not hard to converse with people casually on non-confrontational issues.

Teaching is confrontational in this game.

The reality of the situation is there are a few very weird narratives people run that affect how people interact. I say toxic because that's exactly what they do: they poison the minds of people who hear them and believe it. They make people afraid to even talk to anyone because "if you talk to anyone you'll eventually get banned". They make people confrontational because "the community is actually really toxic underneath and just limited by rules" so people assume the worst intentions. They make people choose certain servers because "Everyone on that server is an ERP-er and will try to drag you into it".

The list goes on.

Sure you can avoid ever being in a car accident by never driving anywhere (well.. realistically you can't cause people might still crash into YOU.. but .. metaphor) but you will miss out on the fun and convenience of driving by doing so. This is the same mentality behind never ever giving advice or helping people.

I'm not going to force you, but I will say that in 10+ years I've never had one conversation with a GM that wasn't because I personally submitted a ticket and I do my best to advise people when I see "problems".

Sometimes it's taken badly (sometimes surprisingly badly), but most of the time it's met with either silence or adjustment and rarely "thank you!". So far it's never been followed up by a GM conversation.

[Nethereal]

I'm.. not sure what this means. You want to share the right way to do it but don't think you should have to "whisper" to make sure it's a 1 on 1 interaction?

Most mechanics can be explained easily, I however do not offer individual advice nor reference any particular individual when something goes awry unless blatantly apparently needing to be addressed pre pull.
For instance, I would rather kick a bad healer/tank than explain to them the basics of their job and how to keep the party from not dying despite it being a simple fix of pressing 1 additional button on their part.
I will however explain how things 'should' be done for us to clear.

The reality of the situation is there are a few very weird narratives people run that affect how people interact. I say toxic because that's exactly what they do: they poison the minds of people who hear them and believe it. They make people afraid to even talk to anyone because "if you talk to anyone you'll eventually get banned". They make people confrontational because "the community is actually really toxic underneath and just limited by rules" so people assume the worst intentions. They make people choose certain servers because "Everyone on that server is an ERP-er and will try to drag you into it".

I mean none of that isn't unnecessarily true.
Initially people associated one server with RP so they could easily group up with like minded people, why is that different when used in a negative connotation?
Not to mention that the GMs feed into this hysteria by not following a strict enough guideline.
And you will get banned eventually if you're not talking in a semi professional manner.
Crude words whether aimed or not aimed at a particular object or person will eventually get you in trouble in this game.

Sure you can avoid ever being in a car accident by never driving anywhere (well.. realistically you can't cause people might still crash into YOU.. but .. metaphor) but you will miss out on the fun and convenience of driving by doing so. This is the same mentality behind never ever giving advice or helping people.

The difference here is I have no guarantee of compensation and I also take on a permanent possible account risk.

When I learn how to drive and buy a car I know the guaranteed pros and possible consequences that it will bring to me, however the pros out weigh the cons by landslide.

Now for someone like me who puts myself before strangers, the above is not true at all when comparing it to 'helping people' in game.
I'm not missing out on anything either as I curate who I interact with in-game largely with third party programs that help me meet people with aligning interests.

A better analogy would be comparing duty finder to a bar and party finder to a friend group.
The bar is open to the public so you don't know who you'll meet, sometimes you meet the love of your life, other times you meet a crazy axe murderer. Both extremes on the opposite spectrum. Both highly unlikely but possible.
However you also know you're going to meet people just like you.
This leads to a friend group which is 'safe' territory already mapped out and you know most of the initial risk you took from meeting them (at the bar) has so far mostly been eliminated.
But if you keep going back to the bar(helping people) befriending people you keep exposing yourself to that risk of running into the axe murderer.
Going once, twice, thrice, a few times more. Not so bad. But after awhile?
After awhile there's really no reason to go back to the bar.

If it helps you understand where I'm coming from. I would rather countless murderers roam free than have a single innocent person be in-prisoned. E.G. I would rather not help anyone than have the possibility of getting a strike regardless of how low and improbable. The possibility to me. Is. Unacceptable.

*snip*

A fair take but the NFL analogy was in poor taste.
People who are in the NFL don't show up to the game(dungeon) wondering what the game plan is they know what the game plan is because they've studied and practiced it way before they had to participate in said game.
They understand that the time to practice, study, give advice, and answer questions is outside the time spent actually participating.

[Krotoan]

I mean none of that isn't unnecessarily true.

It's immensely untrue that if you talk you will get banned. This is an absolute. Its POSSIBLE that if you talk AND you insult or offend someone AND they report it, you might get actioned. This possibility is true.. Talk= eventual ban is not.

There are Toxic people in the FFXIV community as everywhere but EVERYONE (in fact I would go so far as to say MOST people) is not automatically interacting with the worst possible motivations.

The only example I gave that may have some validity to the consequence is the ERP one. If you never want to encounter an ERP player or want to REDUCE the chance of happening into that world you can avoid the servers they're concentrated on.. but it's not like you eliminate the chance entirely.


The problem being that the overblown, hyperbolic narrative that is spread causes undue paranoia and causes people to have unwarranted or poisoned interactions. Just because there is a grain of truth to the source.. does not mean the toxic declaration or narrative is "true" .

Initially people associated one server with RP so they could easily group up with like minded people, why is that different when used in a negative connotation?

Addressed above, but for comprehensive readings sake I will repeat: Because you aren't eliminating all chances, you're simply reducing them whereas the opposite is also true, you aren't unable to RP on other worlds just because they aren't the unofficial ones, you just increase your chances. ERP avoidance being probably the weakest one.

Not to mention that the GMs feed into this hysteria by not following a strict enough guideline.

I think the anti-erp movement and hysteria was largely created BY players who were crusading against them and forcing the hand of GM's who were ill prepared for that particular case. Most other GM enforcements are pretty solid.

And you will get banned eventually if you're not talking in a semi professional manner.
Crude words whether aimed or not aimed at a particular object or person will eventually get you in trouble in this game.

You don't even need to talk in a "semi-professional" manner. You just can't speak to everyone as if you know them. You cannot "banter" with or around strangers, so again.. interaction at all does not = eventual ban. I don't even know why people HAVE to use crude words in any chat that a passerby can experience.

The difference here is I have no guarantee of compensation and I also take on a permanent possible account risk.

When I learn how to drive and buy a car I know the guaranteed pros and possible consequences that it will bring to me, however the pros out weigh the cons by landslide.

You have no guarantee your car ride will be that much more convenient and death or serious injury is pretty permanent. You have no guarantee that buying and learning to drive a car guarantees use of that car (hoo boy the stories I have to tell you about that) or guarantees convenience.

ASIDE FROM THE POINT THOUGH.. that while you can avoid consequences by removing ALL possibility of them, cutting yourself off from entire possible avenues of enjoyment and enrichment is a very very extreme way to do this and advising OTHERS to do the same assuming the same values as you is a harmful narrative to their possible future enjoyment AND it paints interaction and risk in the FFXIV community in an unfair and negative light.

If it helps you understand where I'm coming from. I would rather countless murderers roam free than have a single innocent person be in-prisoned. E.G. I would rather not help anyone than have the possibility of getting a strike regardless of how low and improbable. The possibility to me. Is. Unacceptable.

I'm not telling you to stop guarding yourself.. I'm suggesting you let others find their own truth instead of spreading fear.

I didn't say 'any helping gets you reported.' And I wasn't giving advice - advice was given both prior-to and during the fights. That advice was ignored. Only then did criticism follow. And I don't really care if people respond to that blanket criticism negatively.

But you didn't criticize. What you did was just insult everyone. It didn't help and it wasn't necessary and you being "surprised" that they didn't take it well is .. well.. telling. You are apparently oblivious to the difference between valid criticism and being snarky and that is the source of part of your frustration with how people react to you.

My problem is the people who rush to the defense of inadequacy rather than being ashamed by it. It's always been an enormous problem in FFXIV, and it only seems to be getting worse with time.

Has it? That really hasn't been my experience any more so in FFXIV than any other MMO or multiplayer game now or in the past. There will always be a % of bad players and that cannot be helped, there will always be people on all points in the curve, that's just how humans work. The only difference I've noticed is that here in FFXIV people don't tend to stomp on people who aren't performing to their standards. Now you see this as a failing. "Why aren't they shaming people into improving? THey're letting people "GET AWAY" with doing less! Why doesn't everyone try to make the people not performing to my standards feel bad about it?". I see this as just a more relaxed environment to game in.

Because the culture here is one of acceptance and tolerance and as weird and coddling as that might seem to you, it makes the community a more attractive place for quite a few people and a popular game is a successful one.

It's as if people want to make excuses for every shortcoming imaginable - oh, were you drunk? High? New? Checking on the baby? Rolling your face around on your dog's tummy? Answering the door for pizza? Blind? Half blind? Half asleep? Fully asleep? Don't worry - if the answer as to why you're bad isn't listed, we'll find it. Better that than acknowledging the truth.

The "truth" I've experienced in years and years of playing this game has mostly been that occasionally I encounter people who care far too much if a particular run takes 14-20 more minutes than it "should" and take that as a license to insult and abuse others and then they get shocked for some reason when people react defensively to that.

You have control over your experience and not over theirs and in the end that is all you should be allowed to manage. You might argue they're influencing your experience by stubbornly doing it their way, but you have the choice to leave and SE has kept the punishment for doing so rather shallow. You can also attempt to teach but as I've noticed a lot of people think teaching means shaming or insulting people into doing things the way they like.. that avenue is likely to get you punished in the end as well.

So while you can flail and harangue and tell yourself over and over that these people are the downfall of the game... I've found the truly "bad" to be rare and instead wonder if the problem is encountered everywhere you go, it might be your perspective and not the people.