This game has serious free-rider problems and it's getting worse. A suggestion.

[Rinhi]

The problem is more that you make a villain out of hot air, i literally had no target with my post. So you literally fight against nothing for nothing. There is no person to defend and to be honest my ego is way too big to take a hit from a stranger giving me a lecture.

You interpreted my post as negative and put a negative post yourself out there. Which is basically fighting fire with fire.

that is true, but that's only because there are posters who legitimately make generalising posts such as yours, so please forgive me for coming to the conclusion that you're blowing into the same horn as them!
that said, I also apologize if I've offended you by generalizing you the same way your post did, joking manner or not since my opinion regarding the use of hyperbole hasn't changed! :P

So i am sorry weary forum user, it seems you have no fight left to fight.
^- See that is a joke, a reference to the gremlin ingame to lighten the mood. Which was my first post too, something fun to read and to enjoy for others. Something that is so exaggerated that nobody could take it serious, well almost nobody.

And again i don't mean to insult you, at all. Just trying to bring my point across in a fun and understanding way to be a contradiction to the always dry and heated discussions you find in forums. In my eyes it's nicer to read a exaggerated joke with a hint of truth instead of people just biting each others ankles. (At least we Lalafell since that is the only region of you cloudbreathers we can reach!)

hey, I was a lala as well and just recently grew up to be normal sized! the air does seem nicer up here, though!
I actually agree with your point here and have done similar posts myself

I am fairly new a sprout still. I have been following this thread closely. I am afraid after reading some of these posts. I didn't even know Bozja existed or some of these trials. So I agree with dezzmont here. And googling some of this doesn't help because many things are out dated. As a bard I am aware I will have one of the lowest dps, the other day in a trial I had my first taste of people disparaging my class. And when some one was explains mechanics to those of us who had never been there someone typed in 'ight' slang for alright. I typed back 'ight ' because I thought hey just want them to know I understand immediately the other tanks says okay buddy you can just leave we can get another DPS. I was like wow what did I say? It was so offensive, I just shutup through the rest of the trial. I feel like I'm caught in the middle not exactly understanding my role and at the same time people viewing me as useless and I truly like the bard class. Where do I look to for guidance? Heck I am still trying to get wanders minuet. I feel frustrated that people will label me and I'm level 54 and honestly I'm trying. It's all so dis heartening to see so many people not willing to help others who may or may not understand their class completely.

as the others have said, you were unlucky to have run into someone who, probably in addition to just being a butt in general, was having a bad day and most likely thought the "" was you being cheeky towards the person trying to help
players like that will be like that regardless of content or performance of other players and trying to make sense or even normally interact with them is usually a lost cause in my experience!
as long as you're trying your best, no one has the right to talk down on you

[Joven]

This is literally just a forum for a game wouldn't bother me at all.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

/10char

[Ranaku]

that is true, but that's only because there are posters who legitimately make generalising posts such as yours, so please forgive me for coming to the conclusion that you're blowing into the same horn as them!
that said, I also apologize if I've offended you by generalizing you the same way your post did, joking manner or not since my opinion regarding the use of hyperbole hasn't changed! :P



hey, I was a lala as well and just recently grew up to be normal sized! the air does seem nicer up here, though!
I actually agree with your point here and have done similar posts myself

I mean it sounds you had bad experiences with it so i don't blame you at all for reacting that strong. And i do believe there are many trolls etc. out there using rhetorical devices as an excuse to just insult people. I just like to use rhetoric and stuff like sarcasm etc. to lighten the mood since people get always way too serious in debates etc.. So no hard feelings, i am actually used to it since stuff like sarcasm is basically made to be misunderstood but i am stuborn and refuse to become more serious so it often ends in these ways where i fish out the one person that takes offense in it by accident. Since i really don't mean any harm at all and just want to make some peoples day a bit brighter.

So yeah, no problem at all! And hey, my main alt char will be soon a bunny so maybe then i see how the world up there looks like. Down here it always looks like a forest made out of legs. ^^'

[BaconBits]

I just wanna rack up fat damage while avoiding mechanics and see SMOKIN SICK STYLE pop up in a corner while the soundtrack intensifies.

Is that too much to ask for?

[Misplaced_Marbles]

From what I have experienced, once the fact that X party member is a deadweight/leech/way too bad has been established, kicks go through. You can always ask some people who argue with reality how does someone who is Perma dead because of bad gear is not a deadweight and have them give their definition of a player being deadweight. They can't really win that argument. Make your party members associate the player that needs to be kicked with something bad and reason yourself appropriately and things will work out.

The problem is that they might have a couple of wingmen with them, in which case you're screwed. They might even kick you out for daring to open your mouth instead of just bending over quietly to pick up their slack.

The people who are not their friends just shrug regardless of how obvious it is since their not interested in anything other than getting the duty done.

[Ronduwil]

Uh, Ronduwil in the post above yours literally just quoted someone who said

"If you don’t pass a certain threshold, let us call it the “basic decency level”, you should be denied any kind of reward."

There ARE people in this thread who want to take away things from those they don't judge "worthy" enough to get them.

You misunderstood what I said. My point was that even if we were to take their "good" intentions at face value, the remedies that were proposed fly in the face of those intentions. The point you're making is precisely what I was getting at. For a thread that claims to exclusively target "lazy" players, it sure feels like it's targeting new, returning, and lesser skilled players.

It's far easier, when you've wiped a group for a third time and get kicked for lacking fundamental skills like not accidentally pulling additional packs time after time or performing well-marked mechanics, to blame "toxicity", after all.

You would fit right into the WoW community. That's pretty much lead WoW developer Ion Hazzikostas' take on the subject. Thankfully, the lead designer for this game has a sense of empathy and compassion. Here is a summary of a recent interview with YoshiP when he was asked about ACT:

It is a third party tool, so we don't allow it.
We don't want to engage in long philosophical debates about what is and isn't a third party tool, so it's not likely that we'll actively go after players for using addons like that at this time.
For now, when faced with pressure to use the addon, please say, "YoshiP says no, so it's better if you don't."

Next, he addressed the idea of building ACT into the game, and this is where his statements frame the conversation that we're having now:

That system will be the root of bullying.
Players inevitably crave efficiency eventually, but I personally don't enjoy games that are based all off of efficiency.
Regardless of the third party tool argument, posting someone else's DPS is punishable for harassment: "This person's DPS was so low I had a hard time."

The video for this interview is at: https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU

I feel like I'm caught in the middle not exactly understanding my role and at the same time people viewing me as useless and I truly like the bard class. Where do I look to for guidance?

You shouldn't have to feel that way. Bard DPS is fine. Just maintain your dots and pay attention to your procs. Maintain one of your ballads at all times and take advantage of the ballad-specific skill resets that proc to weave in extra damage. Also remember to use your party-wide buffs (i.e. Battle Voice) on boss fights. If you want a good PvE resource, google "The Balance FFXIV." The top of the search results should be an invite to a discord server. Join it because it has good up to date class/rotation guides and live discussions.

[Awha]

Ignoring my stance on the subject I have to ask.

At the core what reason why should a party by the developers stance fail as a group or succeed as a group when in practice maybe only one person poor level of skill is the factor that is causing the wipe. It seems that people feel that the group is obligated to carry their person across the finish line if they do not want to quit and reform the group.

The reason as to why they may not be able to perform is largely irrelevant we as the players do not know and I willing to bet for the most part do not care why a player is unable to meet the fundamental requirements to clear the content in terms of player skill.

Unless are we saying that we should just assume that everyone who is unable to pass a certain mechanic has an impairment that prevents them from playing to a certain level that is considered normal within the game? Isn't that using disabilities or limitations as a crutch which based on this forums many do not approve of. I am greatly confused as to what people want really.

I get Yoshi-Ps stance and this is why I just silent kick and call it at day.

[DPZ2]

Ignoring my stance on the subject I have to ask.

At the core what reason why should a party by the developers stance fail as a group or succeed as a group when in practice maybe only one person poor level of skill is the factor that is causing the wipe. It seems that people feel that the group is obligated to carry their person across the finish line if they do not want to quit and reform the group.

You may, of course, choose to kick the player. Just don't get all sanctimonious about it.

Unless you queue with a preformed group of 3/7 other people, there is no "group". There is you and a bunch of strangers of varying skill levels seeking a common goal. How you approach that goal yourself says more than any 'leet skillz' you might possess.

[dezzmont]

I am fairly new a sprout still. I have been following this thread closely. I am afraid after reading some of these posts. I didn't even know Bozja existed or some of these trials. So I agree with dezzmont here. And googling some of this doesn't help because many things are out dated. As a bard I am aware I will have one of the lowest dps, the other day in a trial I had my first taste of people disparaging my class. And when some one was explains mechanics to those of us who had never been there someone typed in 'ight' slang for alright. I typed back 'ight ' because I thought hey just want them to know I understand immediately the other tanks says okay buddy you can just leave we can get another DPS. I was like wow what did I say? It was so offensive, I just shutup through the rest of the trial. I feel like I'm caught in the middle not exactly understanding my role and at the same time people viewing me as useless and I truly like the bard class. Where do I look to for guidance? Heck I am still trying to get wanders minuet. I feel frustrated that people will label me and I'm level 54 and honestly I'm trying. It's all so dis heartening to see so many people not willing to help others who may or may not understand their class completely.

I also main bard right now! Anyone who thinks the BRD class is holding them back in flipping level 54 content is a complete loon. If people are clearing TEA (Which I believe is the hardest content in the game) with BRDs you are gunna be able to handle a story dungeon with one no problem.

It is really disheartening to see people enter lower level roulettes not prepared to be their best selves for the portion of the playerbase that is 100% expected to not understand what they are doing yet and who are likely in new content, and with job balance in this game being so immaculate trying to get someone to leave based on their job is super scummy. Be 100% willing to report said people if they explicitly try to bully you out of the group before the roulette even starts. The entire reasons roulettes give out bonuses is to incentivize them to help you, so as long as you aren't a twat demanding a carry (and I doubt you are based on what you said) there is no excuse to not try to make it a smooth, enjoyable experience for new players.

As for learning BRD, I HIGHLY recommend The Balance's guides, and even joining their discord. SatedXIV has a good 'overview' of the guide that I think would make a good template for how XIV should handle job tutorials, though some of it won't apply just yet (ex: You don't HAVE wanderer's, so you need to treat mage's like wanderer's and and use raging shots and barrage in that). The BRD overview can be located right here!

[Ronduwil]

Ignoring my stance on the subject I have to ask.

At the core what reason why should a party by the developers stance fail as a group or succeed as a group when in practice maybe only one person poor level of skill is the factor that is causing the wipe. It seems that people feel that the group is obligated to carry their person across the finish line if they do not want to quit and reform the group.

Personally, I feel that if you're viewing the game in terms of a job where you're trying to produce something and you're constantly measuring your own productivity relative to other players' in order to later make a case to some imaginary in-game supervisor that you deserve a promotion and/or raise, you're just going to have a bad time. The way I see it, when I'm playing the game, I'm a hero fighting the boss, and I hope that I can contribute enough to the group to enable it to kill said boss. Sometimes my contributions fall short of my potential, and other times my comrades fail to contribute to their full potential. As long as we kill the boss, though, I call it a victory, and I'm happy with that. I don't dwell on productivity or lack thereof. I get more than enough of that IRL, and I don't need it in my game. I don't think about fights in terms of who's carrying who. I just want to defeat the boss. If the group wipes, I will pipe up with suggestions on things we could have done better, but other than that, I'm happy to have the opportunity to perform heroic feats, and my party members falling short is simply an opportunity for me to display further heroism.