6.0 Story Speculations

[TheRealQuah]

The 12 are definitely the convocation. Humanity has a desire to worship a higher power, and the sundered souls invented the 12 from the faint subconscious memories they had of the convocation.

[Kesey]

The 12 are definitely the convocation. Humanity has a desire to worship a higher power, and the sundered souls invented the 12 from the faint subconscious memories they had of the convocation.

Although this sounds logical initially, I think it's a hard pill to swallow that the beings who would become The Ascians are also the people who became the pantheon of religious beliefs in Eorzea. Not to mention there is the whole weird moment at Carteneau where Louisoix summoned The Twelve (who would also be the Ascians) to stop Bahamut, which was an Ascian plot, presided over by Lahabrea whose summoned godform was used to recreate Louisoix into the phoenix, which was also Lahabrea's creation originally, and then used to halt crazy mess Lahabrea set into motion.

That is super convoluted.

Or the 12 Ancients with Venat that summoned Hydaelyn are The Twelve and none of the tangled mess above needs to be clarified. Remember Hydaelyn won the initial conflict with Zodiark and Venat was the only one confirmed to be absorbed by Hydaelyn. There is no reason to not believe that those 12 others (and again it's odd that were 12 extra Ancients put in the Venat recording--if that number wasn't significant why animate that many there? It was clearly a conversation with Venat and 2 others) survive the first Hydaelyn and Zodiark fight and are the beings that go on to be known as "The Twelve".

[Bright-Flower]

I kind of hope they turn out to be something else entirely. If we're getting a raid tier to explore these mysteries I'd rather something more interesting than 'they were ancients' involved with either summoning just feels kind of easy and uninteresting to me. I hope it's more of a genuine surprise.

I think filling in some of the gaps in say, post sundering but pre allagan history with them for example would be more interesting.

[WhiteArchmage]

There's a lot of holes to making The Convocation = The Twelve, especially because it's the Convocation of FOURTEEN. And by the Final Days there was no longer an Azem. Nald'Thal would be the "oh, well, it makes sense because discounting Elidibus they're thirteen and if Nald'Thal is a pair of twins then they're actually 13", except I've mentioned previously how Nald'Thal is closest to Hades which would make them the seat of Emet Selch which means there's still a missing Convocation member. And we know from the crystals that they're the 12 zodiacs + Ophiucus and the Sun. I already did a whole conspiracy theory board about the Twelve and the Olympians and the Lucavi so not gonna go there again but suffice to say The Twelve = The Convocation makes me doubt.

It'd be interesting if "The Twelve" were the first Warriors of Light. Not gods, but gods in the eyes of THE PEOPLE who pass down their stories by word of mouth, which eventually get twisted until they're no more than... Myths of the Realm.

ETA: Ooooh, actually, if we take out Convocation = Twelve but KEEP the Convocation = Olympians it makes more sense. While the Dodekatheon were... 12, but WHO were those Twelve is what's up in the air, so keep Artemis, Hades, AND put Gaia in there and it actually makes some sense...

[Kesey]

There's a lot of holes to making The Convocation = The Twelve, especially because it's the Convocation of FOURTEEN. And by the Final Days there was no longer an Azem. Nald'Thal would be the "oh, well, it makes sense because discounting Elidibus they're thirteen and if Nald'Thal is a pair of twins then they're actually 13", except I've mentioned previously how Nald'Thal is closest to Hades which would make them the seat of Emet Selch which means there's still a missing Convocation member. And we know from the crystals that they're the 12 zodiacs + Ophiucus and the Sun. I already did a whole conspiracy theory board about the Twelve and the Olympians and the Lucavi so not gonna go there again but suffice to say The Twelve = The Convocation makes me doubt.

It'd be interesting if "The Twelve" were the first Warriors of Light. Not gods, but gods in the eyes of THE PEOPLE who pass down their stories by word of mouth, which eventually get twisted until they're no more than... Myths of the Realm.

ETA: Ooooh, actually, if we take out Convocation = Twelve but KEEP the Convocation = Olympians it makes more sense. While the Dodekatheon were... 12, but WHO were those Twelve is what's up in the air, so keep Artemis, Hades, AND put Gaia in there and it actually makes some sense...

I like your thinking here and it made me think of another connection. The twelve Disciples of Jesus from the bible. "The Twelve" could be a reimagining of those followers especially if they are followers of a deity (insert Hydaelyn or Zodiark here). It can go one step further with Hydaelyn, Venat, and the WOL as a reimagining of the holy trinity.

[Tensaihime]

Or we might fight a manifestation of the Twelve brought about because prayer + aether = Primal (after all, Louisoix's spell was supposed to SUMMON THE TWELVE, the plan was just to stop it before that happened and use the aether to trap Bahamut).

To be honest, THIS was the first thing I thought of and I can’t stop thinking about the possibility of Carteneau 2.0 or something similar, which is why I keep using words like imposing and fearsome. I’m cool with Hydaelyn being a primal instead of a benevolent spirit, and I’m cool with the Twelve being myths and not actual deities, but I expect severe beatings to happen in both cases and I’m psyching myself up for it.

I’m not familiar with American Gods, would you please explain how that works?

[WhiteArchmage]

I’m not familiar with American Gods, would you please explain how that works?

So, in the world of American Gods, "gods" are created out of the people's belief in a certain "god" or "concept", and a sacrifice, usually by blood. "Old Gods" like Odin, Kali, leprechauns, valkyries, and such, were brought into existence by people's desire to believe in SOMETHING, and a sacrifice of SOMETHING (usually a life, or limbs). "New Gods" are born out of the "worship" of modern things like Media, Technology, Cars, and Trains. It's explicitly mentioned that the God of Cars gets his power from the countless people that die in car accidents; while Media gets hers from people spending their lives in front of TVs. And that people believing in different versions of the same thing created different things (like how the Norwegian version of Odin is different from the one brought by Leif Ericsson to the US, or several different versions of Jesus. In XIV we've had it mentioned by Koji Fox on GamerEscape, and we saw it on Eden).

But Old Gods gave their people something back, by helping with the growth of crops, bringing the rains, or driving away bad weather, among a host of other miracles, they lasted centuries because they have a symbiotic relationship with their followers. New Gods are ephemeral as people latch onto the next "big thing" (like the Gods of Trains "died" and was replaced by the god of Cars) because they don't give anything BACK that would make people hold on to them.

All in all the book is a very good insight into the nature of belief (in anything) and the human need for said belief, but the reason I brought it up specifically was because of that "belief + sacrifice" form of creation, and how Primals need their followers to fuel them, while their followers summon them for protection.

[Tensaihime]

Now I get it! Thanks so much!

[RyuDragnier]

I just realized, we may be getting the offices of the rest of the Convocation of Fourteen named. I wonder what Ultima's will be, perhaps they made the laws the citizens followed? Ultima IS the High Seraph after all.

[Tsiron]

So I'm playing through the MSQ again on an alt, and... Hydaelyn's been dead (or close enough) since our fight against the Ultima Weapon, right..?