6.0 Story Speculations

[Elissar]

When you say Silmarillion-like, which part of the book are you referring to? There are some things I’d enjoy seeing referenced in Endwalker, but there are also some things it would be nice to not have happen after working so hard to keep these people saved.

Hi Tensaihime
In Encyclopediia Eorzea vol1 we can find some info about how the world was created, i'll quote some parts here that made me think about Silmarilion.

In the beginning there was neither light or darkness, only the Whorl.
And it was not until Althyk emerged thence in his nakedness, did time take the first step forward.
With Him, the Keeper also carried weight and with weight were the realms of land and firmament defined

Yet Althyk was not alone overlong, for soon from the Whorl did another step forth.
Her name was Nymeia, and She was but a mewling babe who could do naught but weep, and soon Her tears had created a vast lake..

So, as you see... we have some parallels in the creation of the world.
In Arda, as Tolkien tell, the middle earth didn't existed at the beginning of time.
To fulfil this void he asked the Ainurs to create a music, like we see here:

...Then the voices of the Ainur, like unto harps and lutes, and pipes and trumpets, and viols and
organs, and like unto countless choirs singing with words, began to fashion the theme of Ilúvatar to
a great music; and a sound arose of endless interchanging melodies woven in harmony that passed
beyond hearing into the depths and into the heights, and the places of the dwelling of Ilúvatar were
filled to overflowing, and the music and the echo of the music went out into the Void, and it was not
void.

Like Silmarilion, the hierarchy between the Twelves helped to build the world, Orschon built our mountains for example.

His name was Orschon, and where He wandered did towering mountains rose from level plains.
With the formation of these spires did cold wind flow from on high down to the warm seas and back up again,
carrying life that was once reserved for land and water into the skies

Silmarilion about water

Now to water had that Ainu whom the Elves can Ulmo turned his thought, and of all most deeply
was he instructed by Ilúvatar in music.

However, we have some originality too. When you die for example, one of the Twelve will judge you by your actions and profession.
Each one of them have a heaven and hell. For example: if you lived as a good and benevolent knight, Halone will send you to her heaven. If you deserted, she will send you to her frozen hell. Sounds like Dante.
Not only that, but they will estimate the weigh of your heart during your afterlife. If you repent of your sins, you are fine and will go to heaven, if not, they will send you to hell.

"Gods" so to speak can suffer, can feel and take political positions. Even their elements have umbral and astral periods, it's a great challenge to tell a story that is not ridiculous or disproportionate like: yay, we are the Warriors of Light and we can fix conflicts between our gods and correct every chaos anywhere because we are badass and have a plot armor. All i can say is: in Yoshi-P we thrust, i believe they will produce something amazing.
WoW narrative is facing some issues because they tried to embrace a cosmic perspective that in practice is...awkward

I think the msq will reveal that "The Twelve" are the 12 Ancients with Venat in the 5.2 recording somewhere in 6.0.
Then this 24 man raid series will bring us to "relive" the moments that made them heroic (and eventually achieve godhood over time) in the history of the world.
Maybe the evil thing they defeated or sealed away in the name of Hydaelyn will resurface when Hydaelyn and Zodiark are no more.

I think you are right. They can show something like Crystal Tower and Shadowbringers: a timid and innocent start with an epic outcome.

[Tensaihime]

(snip)

Oh, that’s what you meant. I had thought you were going to mention an amazing city hidden by mountains (could be one of our new locations), or Fandaniel getting in a fight with the mother of all spiders, or something like that... The Ainur actually did have a hand in creating the world, and even interacted with some of those who lived in it. But now it looks like the Twelve aren’t the gods the characters have been thinking they are, so how would the game go about making them seem as imposing?

(I feel like I should know what you mean when you mention the approach WoW took. I better go look that up.)

[Elissar]

...The Ainur actually did have a hand in creating the world, and even interacted with some of those who lived in it. But now it looks like the Twelve aren’t the gods the characters have been thinking they are, so how would the game go about making them seem as imposing?

Yep!
this is exactly my thought: we will interact with them? if so, how?
When we look how Middle Earth is made, the "empire" (Morgoth and Sauron) have their own nice minions (Nazgul, Orcs, Uruk-Hai, balrog, dragons, etc). In FFXIV The empire is falling so we don't know if Zodiark/Fandaniel/Zenos will have any support equivalent to Twelve to help him (a mother of all spiders could be epic), or if Hydaelyn will made use of the Twelve. We don't even know for sure who or what they are at this phase of the story, it's hard to say.
I think would be cool if we have something like ARR (primal crystals) in a cosmic proportion where the Twelve help us or we have some epic revelation about our own nature. The cinematic after Death Unto Dawn give us a hint.

[WoW Spoiler]
About WoW: Do you think Sylvanas is a bad person? sorry, it's not! she is being ruled/controlled by some force beyond her! do you think the Jailer is bad? no, it's not! some forces beyond him betrayed him and now he is looking for vengeance! do you think X is bad? no, it's not, actually you have Y that is beyond him in a cosmic perspective. BUT WAIT, here comes the player, the hero of our universe that will save everyone from their own destruction until we can't use plot armor in everyone. Infantile plot twists.

Unfortunately they are destroying some characters that players loved and had some originality like Garrosh, some people say that Blizzard want to create an "Azeroth Reborn".
Honestly i don't know, i just don't want to see the same thing in our FFXIV.

[Tensaihime]

[WoW Spoilers]

Freakin’ A, that’s sad. I know I gripe sometimes about this MSQ, but it sounds like Blizzard is trying for a storyline where agency barely exists. WoW is the game I would be on right now if I had had MMO money when I first started hearing about MMOs. I hope they don’t trash everything that won them the love of millions of fans.

[YianKutku]

But now it looks like the Twelve aren’t the gods the characters have been thinking they are, so how would the game go about making them seem as imposing?

Something I've been thinking about is how the Ixal have handled it, at least for the Ehcatl Nine.

They know what Ayatlan really is. They know Garuda isn't a deity, and they know where their entire race comes from.

But they still believe in the ideal of Ayatlan, even though we (and presumably others, should they brave the journey) can take a trip to Azys Lla to see for ourselves what the reality is.

Similarly and yet conversely, the Vanu Vanu know that Bismarck is (or at least was) flying through their Sea of Clouds. But they reject the one that eats islands as being a false version of their god, and continue to believe in the Great White.

I think there's an interesting story to be told about how the manifestations or physical representations of a person's faith may turn out to be irrelevant to the core of that faith. However, I also concede that a MMORPG is probably not going to be the best medium to tell that story, so I won't mind if we get something more prosaic.

[Tensaihime]

So are you saying there will be characters who believe in whichever Ancients inspired the Twelve, and we need to find those fearsome instead?

[YianKutku]

So are you saying there will be characters who believe in whichever Ancients inspired the Twelve, and we need to find those fearsome instead?

I'm saying that Llymlaen represents the sea, with all its bounty and dangers, and even if it turns out that Llymlaen was actually a distorted memory of Lahabrea, people will still pray to Llymlaen for safety in navigation and the hope that after they put out to sea that day, they will be able to return home.

[Tensaihime]

So background folks and allies not in the know will keep praying to the Twelve while the squad finishes cleaning up the mess perpetuated by the ones who inspired them... I don’t know, they just seem much less fearsome now that I know they’re stories of people who can be and sometimes have been killed by us/Thordan. I guess if one of the Ancients has a Bardam’s Mettle kind of setup somewhere, or if somebody does like Wilred and pals and tries to summon one, that would still be something to get excited over.

[WhiteArchmage]

Well, we don't know anything about Myths of the Realm other than it'll involve the Twelve somehow. We may not even end up fighting THEM but whatever ancient (lowercase "a" ancient) threat they fought to be known as one of the Twelve. Or we might fight a manifestation of the Twelve brought about because prayer + aether = Primal (after all, Louisoix's spell was supposed to SUMMON THE TWELVE, the plan was just to stop it before that happened and use the aether to trap Bahamut). Or since it's a 24-man, the fights are of a different scale. I don't think the Twelve NEED to be "fearsome", anyway; I mean, in the background they're still benevolent deities that people pray to for succor.

I think a main point of FFXIV is that there ARE no gods, not as we understand them, but belief is still a thing and there's power behind belief (American Gods made a similar point about the symbiotic nature of belief, with Gods feeding off the peoples' belief and answering their prayers in kind). Personally I'm much more intrigued about the story of the raid and clearing up the mysteries behind the origins of the Twelve.

[Bright-Flower]

So background folks and allies not in the know will keep praying to the Twelve while the squad finishes cleaning up the mess perpetuated by the ones who inspired them... I don’t know, they just seem much less fearsome now that I know they’re stories of people who can be and sometimes have been killed by us/Thordan. I guess if one of the Ancients has a Bardam’s Mettle kind of setup somewhere, or if somebody does like Wilred and pals and tries to summon one, that would still be something to get excited over.

Well to be fair we don't know for sure that there's a link between the 12 and the convocation or any other ancients. They could still be something else, we'll just have to wait and see until at least 6.1 I guess.