Bring back the role skill diversion for alliance raids

[Sqwall]

I said during mass pulls. Should I have said the point where tanks are currently pulling one trash pack to the next instead? If tanks only AoE them once then go to the next pack it is not enough to keep aggro. Two times is sometimes not even enough. Never had this problem in Stormblood when Diversion was a thing and I could just AoE endlessly during pulls after the tank AoE'd trash packs once.

That's a bad tank

[Sqwall]

They can also rework diversion, to give aggro to the tank

They have that already....it's provoke and shirk. You have a bad tank

[Katie_Kitty]

Then Diversion would be useless. It literally does not matter whether its a Normal mode 8-man, Savage mode 8-man, an Extreme, or an Alliance Raid.

If you or any other DPS is getting threat, it's because the remaining tanks didn't secure it. The sole exception to this is the "marks all tanks with bombs" mechanics -- themselves fairly rare -- for which, at best, you're asking for a hit-on-CD button that, so long as your damage is low enough, forces someone else (with higher damage and/or fewer Diversion presses) else to die in your place (the "peasant" in place of you, the "queen", to borrow your words). That... honestly sounds like a worthwhile expense of toolkit space to you?

At best, it's an additional button tax one is obliged to hit if dealing more damage than the other DPS on the off-chance that an emergency occurs in the future you won't be the first to drop if any only if they suck it up and don't hit the button so that they drop before the player otherwise putting out more enmity.


It's a zero-sum issue here. The danger you don't take is the danger you're foisting onto someone else so long as they hit the "please let me die last" button less than you do.

See now this is just sad. Nowhere, nowhere did I or anyone else say that diversion would be useful for anything in high-end content. Nobody ever said anything about diversion doing anything significant for the game.

Again.. For the 20th time.. This is a light-hearted discussion about a single skill that would only serve a purpose for specific people in very niche situations. You are taking it far too seriously. And, yes, allowing other weaker players to die in your stead is THE POINT.

[SnowVix]

Big no from me. At least for the reason you specified... giving 7 players in the party an extra button to press just because 1 person in the party isn't doing there job properly...

At this point a better solution would be to bake emnity into all tank skills as standard and just have ethe tank stance be a x2 modifier or something.

That the way the tanks will basically automatically be at the top of the gauge regardless of stance the stance would then just cement the main tank so enmity isnt constantly bouncing around..

that would be very bad for Irregular in Bozja. with stance off i can see my aggro bar just doing my rotation, and if stance was only double, Irregular would rip aggro and then get their face ripped off by autos.

[MrThinker]

that would be very bad for Irregular in Bozja. with stance off i can see my aggro bar just doing my rotation, and if stance was only double, Irregular would rip aggro and then get their face ripped off by autos.

Playing devil's advocate, they could an effect to Irregular that reduced enmity generation.

[Shurrikhan]

See now this is just sad. Nowhere, nowhere did I or anyone else say that diversion would be useful for anything in high-end content.

Hence the "it literally does not matter whether ... (high or low-end content)".

And, yes, allowing other weaker players to die in your stead is THE POINT.

For the third time, having others die for you just because you pressed a button more often (or more of your throughput fell within that buff's windows) would be shitty even if it didn't cost that extra button's worth of bloat.

You are taking it far too seriously.

Or, perhaps you aren't thinking things through enough, and the rebuttals you see here as "too serious" are just making up the difference? Given the bloat we have now, and what your suggested mechanic would entail and the purposes you've set for it, that level of "seriousness" seems appropriate.

[Sqwall]

Honestly tanks are literally ONE STEP away from tank stances being a full blown trait. I rarely ever have to throttle my DPS as a warrior if i'm not the main tank.

If i'm not the main tank...I'll delay my opener by like 3 seconds for the MT...finish my opener...shirk macro. done

Diversion was a band aid specifically for the tanks in 3.0-4.0 that couldn't deal damage over the DPS. I remember having a BLM or DRG in groups that would out DPS me and pull agro just because tank DPS was gimp by design.

Diversion was for those tanks that couldn't hold agro BEFORE 5.0.

In 5.0 tanks NEVER have to worry about DPS or Healers pulling agro, tanks only have to worry about co-tanks. If you can competently full fill your rotation as a tank...I don't really know why you would even worry about agro.

This is mirrored for DPS...if your tank isn't asleep or D/C then you should be able to go balls out on DPS without worry.

I will say this till I'm blue in the face....stance dancing (deliverance, sword oath, cleric stance, etc,)HURT the game more then people understand. It created WAY to much imbalance for EVERY class, which in turn created a specific meta that this game shuns so much.

Making threat quite literally like a light switch ON/OFF has made combat entirely skill based over class based. If you can complete your rotation....you're doing fine. If you can preform mechanics and complete you're rotation...you're doing better then fine.

I can only speculate that they will double down with this in 6.0 to make EVERY class rotation specific and EVEN much more less reliant on one class being better then the next.

MNK's stances days are numbered, TANKS stances days are numbered and will rely on Provoke or Shirk and will be the tanks responsibility to manage agro, Healers focus solely on healing/filler DPS (but make enemies hit WAY harder and some nasty debuffs), and DPS just...well DPS.

Embrace the new tank agro playstyle and forget trying to bring back stance dancing ... it was terrible game design, and created WAY to many balance issues. What we have currently is quite literally perfection for EVERY SINGLE JOB/CLASS. This will make future jobs being released much easier to balance and tweak. Gunbreaker had literally no tweaking needed and I bet it was designed with the new agro system involved. Balance the tanks accordingly with specific playstyles...done. Play what you want...everything is viable.

All I would really like is lean more into the playstyles more without breaking the balances. Make each job unique without worrying about agro management, that's the tanks job.

Tanks should be brought to their knees to push them to mitigate more often, stack stats, tank better. Tanks being brought to their knees makes the healers ...well heal more and DPS less, and the enrage would fall squarely on the DPS to stay alive and hit raid buffs correctly. Combat becomes synergized, and the group quite literally relies on each other more. Tank dies....party dies. Healer dies....party dies. To many DPS die...party dies. Small window for recover. It's that simple.

[Katie_Kitty]

Or, perhaps you aren't thinking things through enough

Okay, I'm done with you. You are the most intolerable person I've encountered here so congratulations. Seriously, lighten up.

[Nyarlha]

I hadn't realized it was the same OP but : https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...stead-of-a-DPS

Looks like since this thread didn't go over so well, OP now wants offtanks to be defacto 2nd on the enmity list without doing anything.

[Neihel]

I hadn't realized it was the same OP but : https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...stead-of-a-DPS

Looks like since this thread didn't go over so well, OP now wants offtanks to be defacto 2nd on the enmity list without doing anything.

you mean the same thread that you completely misunderstood?

I asked for tanks to take more responsability and you called it braindead

OP now wants offtanks to be defacto 2nd on the enmity list without doing anything.

I never said this but okay

someone in this thread already suggested the thing I did not say in this thread though :O
which is turning tank stance into a trait

I should not be forced to play as tank so I don't deal with bad tanks and have them kill me for the hundredth time with a tank buster or an auto attack