Materia: the new Armory System

[Rydin]

Wow. Hate much?

I... LOVE... Flight of the Conchords

[Matsume]

Ya, I was actually one of the people who "liked" it. I just forgot to include it in my response. I wouldn't necessarily say it's better or worse but it does build on them, which I like.

Awesome...

[TerahValeth]

I'd like to thank the OP for saying what I've been feeling ever since I started playing around with the Materia System; feelings which have only strengthened with my continued experience w/ the Materia System. I've seen a lot of great ideas for how to balance Raid gear w/ crafted gear, but that fails to address the problem presented by materia in this game. Ideas such as having Raids/Bosses drop mats exclusive to that Raid/Boss that can then be used to make better equipment is a great way of keeping the crafter involved (materia is NOT). All materia does is make it harder to balance crafted vs. Raid equips, and cause endless amounts of grinding to Spiritbond equips to get the desired materia, which will likely be lost in a multi-slot attempt. The crafter's skill isn't taken into account, it's all pure LUCK and gil-sink, so any pride the crafter takes in succeeding is hollow, and all the DoW/M had to do to obtain the item is cash in his/her savings. What SE has done by adding the Materia System, is not adding anything unique and customizable or enjoyable (like the Materia System from FFVII), but a simple way to keep people occupied and the market flowing while they crank out new content. We should not become so easily sated; I'm actually offended that SE thought they could dangle this ball of yarn infront of us to make us happy (but apparently it worked for some).

[Sol_Aureus]

Bumping because I think Materia is still a serious problem as it's currently implemented.

There's still time to change or get rid of the system before 2.0, and I can't stress how important this is to address (in my opinion, of course).

If you agree with my OP, post and say so! If you disagree, post and explain why! I know more people have opinions on this, and with how much this game is centered around Materia currently, now is the time for discussion on it so it can be addressed before it's too late.

[Asiaine]

Bumping because I think Materia is still a serious problem as it's currently implemented.

There's still time to change or get rid of the system before 2.0, and I can't stress how important this is to address (in my opinion, of course).

If you agree with my OP, post and say so! If you disagree, post and explain why! I know more people have opinions on this, and with how much this game is centered around Materia currently, now is the time for discussion on it so it can be addressed before it's too late.

I think materia is a great idea, just the approach needs to be tweaked a bit.

I (and know many others) loved the way Materia worked in FFVII. If we had a similiar model, that would be great.

If the 'system' worked such that single (or even dual-melded) crafted items weren't typically better than NM/GC/etc dropped items then that would be good as well. A balance has to be made here that rewards the crafting and looting system equally (i.e. loot was never finished weapons, only materials that could be used to make 'rare' weapons, which could then be melded even further).

I think that would be enough to make everyone happy? ^.^;

[Orsnoire]

Actually I don't think that the issue is really about crafted items but more of a problem with the poor itemization on gear in the game. If dropped items had a better itemization (e.g. 3-5% bonus to a given stat on EACH piece of gear, for 2-3 stats minimum on EACH piece of gear) we frankly wouldn't even be having this discussion. The problem is, as has been noted elsewhere, an entire set of gear gives less than 5% bonus to stats in the current setup.

If materia kept the current stats it has now, and drops were just adjusted to have more reasonable stats on it as noted above, it would resolve two serious itemization issues with the game.

[Sol_Aureus]

Actually I don't think that the issue is really about crafted items but more of a problem with the poor itemization on gear in the game. If dropped items had a better itemization (e.g. 3-5% bonus to a given stat on EACH piece of gear, for 2-3 stats minimum on EACH piece of gear) we frankly wouldn't even be having this discussion. The problem is, as has been noted elsewhere, an entire set of gear gives less than 5% bonus to stats in the current setup.

If materia kept the current stats it has now, and drops were just adjusted to have more reasonable stats on it as noted above, it would resolve two serious itemization issues with the game.

While the poor allocation of stats to gear is a definite problem, it doesn't solve a lot of the problems with Materia. One of my arguments in my OP, for example:
Specific Materia will almost ALWAYS outperform U/U gear.

Take Healer's Hand for example. As a healer, it's going to be very VERY difficult to convince me to use anything but my double-slotted healer's hand wand and headpiece since healing magic potency is such an important stat. They've already said that they're not going to balance for any more than 1 slotted materia when considering stats for gear, so at max they're considering a crafted piece of gear with +20 healing magic potency from a max tier IV healer's hand when taking materia-slotted gear into account for balance.

I doubt that they're going to make a wand or headpiece that will have any more then +25 Healing magic potency on it for U/U. It's not that hard to get over +25 through Materia (well, it can be hard, or you can also get it on your first try! Throwing money and time at a random number generator does not equal a rewarding experience or a very substantial feeling of accomplishment.) How is it a balanced system if almost every piece of gear in those 2 slots will be obsolete on release for me?

Sure, they could add different stats to the piece of gear, make it more appealing for a specific set, but to be honest gearsets aren't nearly as relevant in this game as they were in, say, FFXI. We don't have efficient gearswaps. Most of the time I'll be going with a set that benefits me the most overall, and as a healer, that's going to be Healing Magic Potency. So while it might be nice to have like +20 enhancing magic potency along with +20 healing magic potency (I doubt that they'd give us something this practical though), I'd probably still go with the +31 healing magic potency over it.

My point is the Materia system as it is now causes way too many problems to not get heavily adjusted. I seriously think this would be a whole lot simpler, better, and easier to balance everything if crafted gear was allowed 1 Materia slot. That's it. Hell, it does't even have to be the 100% bonding chance. It can be the same chance as a double-slot is now. That keeps items and Materia flowing through the market for people who fail. Add in new stats that increase the % chance of success, now crafters have new gear or Materia to go for, AND players feel like they have some semblance of control over the process instead of just hitting the button and hoping it works.

I'm quite aware that implementing this stuff is hardly easy, and it doesn't look good heavily modifying a system that's meant to be a core mechanic of the game, but this NEEDS to be done before Materia gets too integrated into the game.

But my opinion alone means nothing, for the problems with the Materia to even get looked at with any sort of credence more players need to weigh in. So PLEASE reply to this thread and give your opinions, even if it's just an "I agree" or "Materia is fine as it is because _____," this discussion needs to keep going.

[Orsnoire]

@ Sol_Areus

I find it interesting that you dismiss out of hand what is the crux of the issue: itemization.

You state right out that they will never give us anything "this practical" on gear. I turn that statement around on you and state simply this: to fix the current equipment itemization problems and the materia problems, they HAVE to give something "this practical" on gear. Else it's exactly as you describe: gear that doesn't matter, and multi-slotted materia pieces are king.

I don't know if this is their design goal, but if it is it's pretty poor design, and keeping that itemization scheme through 2.0 WILL hurt the game.

[Sol_Aureus]

@ Sol_Areus

I find it interesting that you dismiss out of hand what is the crux of the issue: itemization.

You state right out that they will never give us anything "this practical" on gear. I turn that statement around on you and state simply this: to fix the current equipment itemization problems and the materia problems, they HAVE to give something "this practical" on gear. Else it's exactly as you describe: gear that doesn't matter, and multi-slotted materia pieces are king.

I don't know if this is their design goal, but if it is it's pretty poor design, and keeping that itemization scheme through 2.0 WILL hurt the game.

But one of the points I was trying to make was that even if they were to fix the allocation of stats on gear so that it was that practical (which, for the record, I agree is something that should be done), certain pieces of gear will still fall into that category of "gear that doesn't matter, and multi-slotted materia pieces are king."

Like I said, they already have stated that for balance purposes, they're only considering 1-slotted pieces of crafted gear. Because of this, they're not going to release U/U gear that are leagues above those 1-slotted pieces. So when that +25 healing magic potency wand comes out that you have to beat the hard mode dungeon speed run for, I won't have any drive to get it because I already have better stuff which is much easier to obtain by double-slotting.

[Theplatter]

Funny, I was just talking about this issue earlier today, even before I knew this thread existed. I 100% agree that materia causes too much of an issue now, and I think SE should have waited to implement it (possibly even after 2.0). How is AF going to be significant with 2/3+ slotted materia gear as an alternative? Sure it will look cool, but functionality-wise, they're going to have to add some nifty stats to AF if they want it to compete with what's available now.