Botting: Good or Evil? lol

[Thaciscokidd]

Bots are bad.

The RMT bots got worse with the implementation of World Travel and like StriderShinryu said its a growing problem. But anti-bot/cheat software could be a bigger problem(specially for those in the community who solely gather/craft). Data center travel might be the make or break moment for botting depending on what they let you do while you travel.

[Dragonblanco]

Botting is absolutely not a good thing. That said, it's also an arms race, especially now that FF14 is even bigger than it ever has been. Everything that SE can do or does to combat botters will just lead to the botters upping their game as well. So, yeah, as bad as botting is it's also not going anyway completely any time soon.

Yeah, and in my prior comment where I mentioned to Kes13a about politics and "gray areas" I think this essentially makes the point. It comes down to the same for players. At what point do you go from a full "no botting" aspect to realizing people are always going to keep improving and introducing things and just accepting it...turning to botting yourself? It's something I'm battling with internally as I had wanted a house and found myself surrounded by bots at the placard. I've reported them and it APPEARS like nothing is really done about it, though I know it takes time for them to see tickets and respond. (they just now saw a video I sent them a month ago and responded to let me know they got it).

Because of that, I've wrestled with the idea of whether I shouldn't just create a macro and let it camp for me while I go off to do other things. But I just can't let myself do it out of fear of getting my account in trouble. Yet there's a part of the old saying, "if you can't beat them, join them" that echoes in my head. It's annoying and challenging, but I often do blame the developers for making things the way they have. They could revamp housing easily to eliminate bots and give everyone a fair chance at housing, for example. They could let collectibles be made quickly just like normal crafting does, but they make you go through the tons of button presses AND gave tons of incentives to make people want to go the Ishgard route on crafting.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Evil or not really depends on one’s perspective, but there’s really no denying that botting is harmful to the game’s health from objective point of view.

[Kes13a]

Well, I don't spend a lot of times on the forum persay. And when I do see things, it's often comments like yours which are very short and generic. I mean, it's your answer but like you didn't tackle any of the points I mentioned and ignored the aspect of pros and cons.

What I find most interesting in that is I'd really like to learn ages and life experiences from those who have solid black and white answers, like saying it's cheating and should be banned. I'm not going to say that type of answer is wrong, but it feels to me like an "inexperienced" viewpoint. I don't mean that negatively but I'm referring to how much of the world doesn't operate in "black and white" but often wants people to operate in the "gray areas." Where we're supposed to ignore what one person does because of their connections or some bullcrap. Essentially, think of it like how politics work. Instead of everyone doing what's right and enforcing those morals & ethics, the world often turns its eyes and doesn't want to see it.

I think where I'm more willing to think about it, listen, and spark up conversation is because I've essentially become a bit jaded, or whatever the proper term is. I've tried doing right and been burnt quite often for it. So as I look around the politics of the world and see how it all operates, I guess I've become more numb and accepting of "gray areas." It doesn't mean I agree or am happy with it, but that I just learn nothing is going to change and we just have to accept it. Not sure if that makes sense to you?

probably because there is an extensive thread regarding it in Markets and retainers section. cheating is not a "gray area". cheating harms play by legitimate players who put time and effort into a game. the botters typically are not even anywhere near the keyboard so is automated play designed for personal real life enrichment, also know as money. period. they are not doing to to feel any sense of achievement, they are doing it for teh sole reason of bypassing having to put out any personal effort. how is that in any way good for a game?

as for ages etc, I have been playing game and mmo's since before WoW came to market, so have been involved with a few, and a healthy game environment is one where cheaters are punished, because it promotes a feeling that all are equal and not that a few can get away with "gaming the system". when it comes to crafting, how is it "right" that a normal, non cheating person spend the time crafting an item while a bot churns them out by the bushel load with zero effort by the user?

the use of third party software, namely botting software, is against the TOS and is explicitly stated, there is no "gray area".

[Dragonblanco]

probably because there is an extensive thread regarding it in Markets and retainers section. cheating is not a "gray area". cheating harms play by legitimate players who put time and effort into a game. the botters typically are not even anywhere near the keyboard so is automated play designed for personal real life enrichment, also know as money. period. they are not doing to to feel any sense of achievement, they are doing it for teh sole reason of bypassing having to put out any personal effort. how is that in any way good for a game?

as for ages etc, I have been playing game and mmo's since before WoW came to market, so have been involved with a few, and a healthy game environment is one where cheaters are punished, because it promotes a feeling that all are equal and not that a few can get away with "gaming the system". when it comes to crafting, how is it "right" that a normal, non cheating person spend the time crafting an item while a bot churns them out by the bushel load with zero effort by the user?

the use of third party software, namely botting software, is against the TOS and is explicitly stated, there is no "gray area".

I say gray area because developers have called it a gray area. I wish I could find the video itself again, but here's a Reddit with the transcripts. Try to check it out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...talking_about/

Or you can do a YouTube where someone is reading it from a Discord. That's at https://youtu.be/-FrGa1HJIVs

[MilkieTea]

I say gray area because developers have called it a gray area. I wish I could find the video itself again, but here's a Reddit with the transcripts. Try to check it out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...talking_about/

Or you can do a YouTube where someone is reading it from a Discord. That's at https://youtu.be/-FrGa1HJIVs

Botting is not a grey area.

Using tools such as G-Shade and ACT is a grey area. Third party tools are a grey area BECAUSE of ACT and G-Shade. Botting is not a grey area. Please learn to accurately read what you’re linking to.

[Kes13a]

I say gray area because developers have called it a gray area. I wish I could find the video itself again, but here's a Reddit with the transcripts. Try to check it out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...talking_about/

Or you can do a YouTube where someone is reading it from a Discord. That's at https://youtu.be/-FrGa1HJIVs

when it comes to actual enforcement, what some dev says on some video isnt going to save your toosh

what is written in the TOS is what they'll enforce and if your botting and you have interfered with someones enjoyment, or are obviously using a third party program, they wont think "oh this is a gray area" they'll penalize you regardless of what a dev said. so no, there is no gray area according to the rules. following the rules wont get you banned, wandering into gray areas to play with bots, just might.

[Awha]

Botting for the general public can be a good especially in games like FFXIV that have many redundancy mechanics in place, also they do provide cheaper items on avg at least within FFXIV.

Think it really depends on who you ask, as a crafter I dislike them, but I know many people who do not craft that love the bots cause they keep prices for certain items like consumables on the lower end of the spectrum.

[KageTokage]

Some people argue that the economy would somehow "collapse" if the bots were suddenly removed...but it wouldn't.

Actual players would just move in to replace them, and the prices wouldn't necessarily even be that much worse if there's enough competition between them.

They don't do anything good for the game...aside from playing extremely high quality music using the performance function.

[Awha]

Some people argue that the economy would somehow "collapse" if the bots were suddenly removed...but it wouldn't.

Actual players would just move in to replace them, and the prices wouldn't necessarily even be that much worse if there's enough competition between them.

They don't do anything good for the game...aside from playing extremely high quality music using the performance function.

That is the thing they would be worse. Players that do not care about crafting and do the bare minimum to earn gil such as dailies if asked probably would take lower prices with bots verse even slightly higher prices with without bots.

Bots in FFXIV do suck but generally with how little value gil has outside certain things their will always be a subset of the community that do not have an issue with them. So the good and evil thing is weird cause it does depend on who you ask.

I do agree I doubt the economy would collapse but prices and availability may be impacted at least for a time. As humans we are need driven so I can understand why people are scared or disapprove of sudden purge of all bots.