Botting: Good or Evil? lol

[Ruru_Nayu]

I stopped crafting because of bots, perma them lmao

[Jojoya]

It is not good or evil.

It is wrong to do. It is cheating.

If game developers wanted players to be able to automate certain tasks, they would incorporate the automation into the game.

Examples of the game botting for us: Quick Synthesis and Chocobo Porter. Both activities have a normal method that requires more direct inpur from the player but we're given these as options so we only have to press a couple of buttons and the game does the rest.

If someone thinks the game experience would be improved by the game automating certain activities, then submit suggestions to SE for consideration.

But no one should be using bots or other forms of cheating. Those who do it deserve to have their accounts permanently banned.

If you need to cheat, stick to a single player game where what you do has absolutely zero impact on someone else's game experience.

[Dragonblanco]

where what you do has absolutely zero impact on someone else's game experience.

I hear you on most of your points and essentially agree. I do wish they'd change things, like housing. From what I have seen and heard, many players are griping about it and hoping for changes. Hopefully they get to it. That said, let me point back at this one section of what you mentioned. I think it's where I was discussing in my pros and cons. Some of the things really doesn't have impacts on anyone else's game experience. Like if Ruru used macros to do Ishgard Restoration crafting so they can level up their crafter. How does that help or hurt you? Does it impact you at all?

Well, what if they then create a more complicated macro that will let them repeat a travel path between a few mining nodes. How does that help or hurt you? Does it impact you at all? I mean...the node stays so it's not like WoW where them getting ahead of you makes the node vanish. So where would the problem be?

I get it, there are some complexities there where we can break down issues, like saying a person could essentially run multiple accounts at the same time to try to buy houses and then sell FC or relocation to others. It becomes unfair as the person has multiple clients and it's all automated. We could talk about some of the basic bots that do dungeon queues and don't really play much, they go on /follow and just hit some basic rotations on a fairly regular, doing target of target as they hope to get gear and/or poetics. Those things, where it diminishes experiences and makes it harder...I agree need attacked. Those will have direct effects on others.

Just so you know, I'm bringing this up and phrasing as I am just for bits of debate. I really do like learning where people draw the line and how they distinguish right from wrong. Not here to argue, but to learn and I guess show how it can be tough sometimes to break it apart.

[Jojoya]

I hear you on most of your points and essentially agree. I do wish they'd change things, like housing. From what I have seen and heard, many players are griping about it and hoping for changes. Hopefully they get to it. That said, let me point back at this one section of what you mentioned. I think it's where I was discussing in my pros and cons. Some of the things really doesn't have impacts on anyone else's game experience. Like if Ruru used macros to do Ishgard Restoration crafting so they can level up their crafter. How does that help or hurt you? Does it impact you at all?

Macros are part of the game, not a third party tool. They're part of the limited automation SE has built into the game.

You still need to be present to start synthesis on the recipe then start the macro. You're going to have to use manual input at least every 45 seconds if not more often. You're not going to be able to walk away for 2 hours and come back to a stack of finished collectables.

Someone using a third party tool to bot can walk away for that two hours.

One is allowed by the game. One isn't. Playing by the rules is what makes the game experience fair for everyone.

Is using Razer Synapse, iCue etc etc botting then?

Depends on if you're using the programmable functions to do things that could not be duplicated using an in-game macro.

Bots in FF14 are TAME compared to some games.

In ESO when first launched, bots could be seen FLYING IN THE AIR across maps. Moving and killing underground in plain sight. Teleporting up through 3 storey buildings. Blatant teleporting to each node to harvest.

Ugh.

That was also happening here at the start of Shadowbringers. It took a while for SE to counter whatever they were doing so they were no longer flying in trains across the sky in various places.

Just because you perceive it to be more of a problem in other games doesn't mean it's not a problem here.

Camping the placards just is screwed up.

So don't camp the placards. It's not how players were intended to do it. Even resorting to a bot doesn't guarantee you'll get the plot. Plenty of players have managed to get a plot despite the presence of someone using a bot or auto-click scrip.

Macros pushing buttons for you = botting.

In-game macros are part of the game. SE controls what we can or cannot accomplish using them.

Macros that are created by using third party tools are outside of SE's control and may do things that SE does not want players to do. Therefore they are not allowed.

It shouldn't be difficult to understand that

[Dragonblanco]

Macros are part of the game, not a third party tool. They're part of the limited automation SE has built into the game.

You still need to be present to start synthesis on the recipe then start the macro. You're going to have to use manual input at least every 45 seconds if not more often. You're not going to be able to walk away for 2 hours and come back to a stack of finished collectables.

Someone using a third party tool to bot can walk away for that two hours.

One is allowed by the game. One isn't. Playing by the rules is what makes the game experience fair for everyone.

In-game macros are part of the game. SE controls what we can or cannot accomplish using them.

Macros that are created by using third party tools are outside of SE's control and may do things that SE does not want players to do. Therefore they are not allowed.

It shouldn't be difficulty to understand that

So what you quoted me on was me responding to you when you were saying it shouldn't be allowed because it impacts other players. The example I gave was of using third party macros to do Ishgard Restoration, which many do. You create a game macro for the things, then set Razer Synapse or other programs to keep it going. It doesn't take from the economy, it doesn't really give that player a benefit over others, etc. So it was just a comparison.

That said, I already know about macros and botting. If you've read my many responses in trying to educate people, you'll see where I've fully described what they are, how they work, acknowledged what is and isn't allowed by ToS, quoted what is said to be gray areas because they can't monitor what is on our computers, and so much more. Yet, none of that was that my forum post here was supposed to be about. I didn't ask for definitions or what is allowed by SE. I asked what players personally think about botting, what the pros and cons of them are, and if they (you) would bot IF SE were to suddenly modify ToS and say all players would be allowed to use those programs?

[Jojoya]

The example I gave was of using third party macros to do Ishgard Restoration, which many do. You create a game macro for the things, then set Razer Synapse or other programs to keep it going. It doesn't take from the economy, it doesn't really give that player a benefit over others, etc.

Except it does give that player a huge advantage over others. It does take from the economy. You do know that scrip can be converted into items to sell on the MB, don't you?

Someone who automates that via third party tools gets to spend their time doing other things. They can run it while they sleep or they're at work then spend their normally limited game time doing other content.

Someone who only uses the in game macro that requires manual input to restart the macro each time does not. They have to make choices about whether they use their limited game time on the Restoration or on other content.

Please, just stop with the bad rationalizations on why it's okay to cheat. It's not.

If you've read my many responses in trying to educate people, you'll see where I've fully described what they are, how they work, acknowledged what is and isn't allowed by ToS, quoted what is said to be gray areas because they can't monitor what is on our computers, and so much more.

There are no grey areas here.

Use of third party tools to automate game play is not allowed.

Those who choose to do so are cheating and are subject to ban if caught. That simple. Just because someone does not get caught does not make it okay to do.

[Fungo]

Everytime I run out of silly shards when I craft, I am thinking how nice it would be, to be able to have my too farm them while I do other stuff..

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Everytime I run out of silly shards when I craft, I am thinking how nice it would be, to be able to have my too farm them while I do other stuff..

Retainer ventures.

[Liam_Harper]

For me, I've tried to see it from different ways. Like people with families or multiple jobs can't always man their PC to try for things like housing. So for them, letting it do Ishgard Restoration while they are at work, helping their kids, or whatever else lets them actually enjoy the game without having to do the button spam for hours on end. Or it lets them camp out and try to buy property that otherwise would demand they stand there for 4+ hours in hopes to get the purchase.

No disrespect to people with families and jobs, but this doesn't entitle you to unfair advantages over others. Sometimes you just have to accept that your real life situation means you can't fully enjoy all the hobbies you wish. You can't just expect to be allowed to negatively impact hobbies for people who enjoy them because you have a job or children. Not to mention bots are not handed out based on an evaluation of your real life commitments and time schedule, they're openly available and more often used by people who have plenty of free time and can't be bothered.
The game already respects your time more than most. If the developers consider a form of automated gameplay to be acceptable, they'd have added it.

On the topic of legal ingame bots, I've actually seen MMO's try this years ago in the past as a means to combat botting. They absolutely wrecked their own economies. All markets simply died. It pretty much killed those games.

Sure, them undercutting means you can't sell some things as high as you'd want. But then it's the reverse too, that you can buy things cheaper than you otherwise could. I think it's this gray area of seeing more benefits than negative, not to mention how there's no substantial direct impact against players, why we see so much of it existing

Buying items cheap is the end result. It feels like a benefit, but you skip over and destroy everything in the middle. For those who like to sell, there's no longer a point in leveling crafters, gearing, farming mats, making items and listing them. For those who buy, there's no longer a point in leveling crafters, farming Normal raids, farming scrips and all the rest. Why bother, just buy your items and gear dirt cheap from a bot.

Super cheap items are only a very short term "benefit". Similar to loading cheat codes in a single player game is a benefit for half an hour, then you suddenly realize you're bored and done with the game.

[Dragonblanco]

No disrespect to people with families and jobs, but this doesn't entitle you to unfair advantages over others. Sometimes you just have to accept that your real life situation means you can't fully enjoy all the hobbies you wish. You can't just expect to be allowed to negatively impact hobbies for people who enjoy them because you have a job or children. Not to mention bots are not handed out based on an evaluation of your real life commitments and time schedule, they're openly available and more often used by people who have plenty of free time and can't be bothered.
The game already respects your time more than most. If the developers consider a form of automated gameplay to be acceptable, they'd have added it.

On the topic of legal ingame bots, I've actually seen MMO's try this years ago in the past as a means to combat botting. They absolutely wrecked their own economies. All markets simply died. It pretty much killed those games.



Buying items cheap is the end result. It feels like a benefit, but you skip over and destroy everything in the middle. For those who like to sell, there's no longer a point in leveling crafters, gearing, farming mats, making items and listing them. For those who buy, there's no longer a point in leveling crafters, farming Normal raids, farming scrips and all the rest. Why bother, just buy your items and gear dirt cheap from a bot.

Super cheap items are only a very short term "benefit". Similar to loading cheat codes in a single player game is a benefit for half an hour, then you suddenly realize you're bored and done with the game.

Thanks for a friendly and awesome response. Overall I'm right on board with you. And as others have said, some of my frustration is more in how the developers have failed. Like we really need to see them revamp housing. Camping the placards just is screwed up. And as much as I'd like to think of it a bit as I did of the old HNM days and all in FFXI, there's a huge difference in that you're competing for yourself. At least on HNM camping it was a group effort and we had fun with each other while there. I think it's about the only area of the game where I've been frustrated enough that I've considered botting. But that's just frustration talking.