Krile’s Blessing of Light/Crystal of Light

[Theozilla]

A lot of times NPCs refer to the Echo as being gifted or blessed. I think it's written this way to show that the NPCs are confused about it too. However, I also think from a meta standpoint, it's so that the writers can say whatever they want without thinking about it too hard.

Perhaps, but with Ejika, he actually does specifically “blessing of Light” in his dialogue, not just gifted or blessed.

[Enkidoh]

Perhaps, but with Ejika, he actually does specifically “blessing of Light” in his dialogue, not just gifted or blessed.

Although I'm liable to take that as just a minor mistake in writing (it wouldn't be the first time a minor error has changed context completely), on the other hand, there does seem to be some connection between the Echo and the Blessing - towards the end of ARR's story when Midgardsormr sealed the Blessing and dulled the Crystals of Light, it also seemed to affect the WoL's Echo as well, although they still had the immunity to tempering, they no longer experienced Echo visions of the past.

The WoL didn't experience another Echo scene til well into HW's story after having already relit several of the Crystals by that stage and thus partially restored the Blessing (as I recall after ARR the next Echo vision they had was about halfway through HW's story as the scene depicting Haldrath becoming the first Azure DRG and the formation of the noble Houses of Ishgard, plus Nidhogg starting the Dragonsong War), the last Echo vision they previously had was well back in ARR's story (the exact one I can't remember anymore).

So it's clear the two do go hand in hand despite being seperate concepts (of course it's also entirelly possible not having Echo visions was just an unintentional side effect of having the Blessing sealed - that Midgardsormr's seal 'leaked into' the Echo as well and affected that too, but which was not part of his intent - it was to strip the WoL of Hydaelyn's protection, which he thought they were profiting off at her expense, which of course was not the case, but as we now know the Echo had nothing to do with Hydaelyn).

[Theozilla]

Though to be clear it only goes hand-in-hand for non-Ascians and people who naturally have the Echo (as there has been no indication that Zenos, Fordola, and/or Misija have even an artificial Blessing of Light, correct)?
So would that be evidence that having the Echo is a prerequisite for having the Blessing of Light, like to make an analogy how the Nintendo 64 was to the 64DD add-on/peripheral? Like it’s not possible for someone to have the Blessing of Light but not have the Echo?
And to continue the analogy, Crystals of Light are like the 64DD game disks? (with the WoL having 6 of them)?

[Vyrerus]

Though to be clear it only goes hand-in-hand for non-Ascians and people who naturally have the Echo (as there has been no indication that Zenos, Fordola, and/or Misija have even an artificial Blessing of Light, correct)?
So would that be evidence that having the Echo is a prerequisite for having the Blessing of Light, like to make an analogy how the Nintendo 64 was to the 64DD add-on/peripheral? Like it’s not possible for someone to have the Blessing of Light but not have the Echo?
And to continue the analogy, Crystals of Light are like the 64DD game disks? (with the WoL having 6 of them)?

Sort of, but Ryne breaks that trend too. Having Minfilia's Blessing and Oracle of Light powers but no Echo. Hence why she goes mad when she tempers herself by becoming Shivadaelyn.

[Theozilla]

Sort of, but Ryne breaks that trend too. Having Minfilia's Blessing and Oracle of Light powers but no Echo. Hence why she goes mad when she tempers herself by becoming Shivadaelyn.

I’m pretty sure Ryne also has the Echo too though?

And Ryne didn’t actually temper herself, she just lost control of all the power she was trying to control. If she had been tempered, that would have had a more permanent aftereffect.

[Vyrerus]

I’m pretty sure Ryne also has the Echo too though?

And Ryne didn’t actually temper herself, she just lost control of all the power she was trying to control. If she had been tempered, that would have had a more permanent aftereffect.

Her eyes glowed blue like all people's do when they initially get tempered, and she couldn't stop herself.

After the meteorshower scene in 5.2 she says she didn't hear Hydaelyn. All people with the Echo, whether they knew they had or not, did. So... as weird as it sounds, she doesn't have the Echo.

[Theozilla]

Her eyes glowed blue like all people's do when they initially get tempered, and she couldn't stop herself.

After the meteorshower scene in 5.2 she says she didn't hear Hydaelyn. All people with the Echo, whether they knew they had or not, did. So... as weird as it sounds, she doesn't have the Echo.

Okay, I went and rewatched the scenes after the meteorshower in 5.2, and I haven’t seen any scene where Ryne says she didn’t hear anything, could you point out where she exactly states that? (I know in the beginning of 5.3, when Ryne is in the library she says she’s never heard Hydaelyn’s voice, she has still felt Hydaelyn’s presence, but that’s 5.3 not 5.2)
And even if she didn’t hear Hydaelyn’s call then, couldn’t that simply be attributed to her already having the Echo?
Also in those same scenes, Urianger surmises that having the Echo is indeed a prerequisite for hearing Hydaelyn and that those awaken to the Echo receive the Blessing of Light in the same instant.
That seems like it implies Ryne would be required to have the Echo in order to have the Blessing.

Also not everyone’s eyes glow blue when tempered, Cid’s father may have, but I went and rewatched the ARR cutscene where Ifrit tempers the captured people and their eyes don’t glow blue during and/or after being tempered.

In Ryne’s case, I think the glowing blue eyes is just indicative of her losing control not being tempered. Because again if she had been tempered there would have been after effects, as curing tempering wasn’t a thing until 5.4.

EDIT: Also I just remembered that Ryne even shares an Echo flashback with the WoL in 5.0, right before Minfilia subsumed herself into Ryne’s being. She even does the holding her head headache thing the WoL does. I think that’s pretty declarative evidence to her having the Echo too.
See here at the 1:33:30 mark in this video
https://youtu.be/cqOLqY7qI-k

[SannaR]

Okay, I went and rewatched the scenes after the meteorshower in 5.2, and I haven’t seen any scene where Ryne says she didn’t hear anything, could you point out where she exactly states that? (I know in the beginning of 5.3, when Ryne is in the library she says she’s never heard Hydaelyn’s voice, she has still felt Hydaelyn’s presence, but that’s 5.3 not 5.2)
And even if she didn’t hear Hydaelyn’s call then, couldn’t that simply be attributed to her already having the Echo?
Also in those same scenes, Urianger surmises that having the Echo is indeed a prerequisite for hearing Hydaelyn and that those awaken to the Echo receive the Blessing of Light in the same instant.
That seems like it implies Ryne would be required to have the Echo in order to have the Blessing.

Also not everyone’s eyes glow blue when tempered, Cid’s father may have, but I went and rewatched the ARR cutscene where Ifrit tempers the captured people and their eyes don’t glow blue during and/or after being tempered.

In Ryne’s case, I think the glowing blue eyes is just indicative of her losing control not being tempered. Because again if she had been tempered there would have been after effects, as curing tempering wasn’t a thing until 5.4.

EDIT: Also I just remembered that Ryne even shares an Echo flashback with the WoL in 5.0, right before Minfilia subsumed herself into Ryne’s being. She even does the holding her head headache thing the WoL does. I think that’s pretty declarative evidence to her having the Echo too.
See here at the 1:33:30 mark in this video
https://youtu.be/cqOLqY7qI-k

That's the only time I think we see her do that though. Course it could just be how visiting the space Minfillia was/is in could happen without offering up some aether. As we don't know what happened the last time Ryne "visited" Minfillia at the start. Just how it looked after the possession happened.

[Theozilla]

That's the only time I think we see her do that though. Course it could just be how visiting the space Minfillia was/is in could happen without offering up some aether. As we don't know what happened the last time Ryne "visited" Minfillia at the start. Just how it looked after the possession happened.

I’m not sure what you’re point is though, Ryne still experienced an Echo flashback and even did the iconic poses that other Echo users do when having a vision. I think that’s undeniable evidence of it being the Echo.

[Vyrerus]

Okay, I went and rewatched

I often conflate beginning and ends of patches when they're related. The point is, is that during the meteorshower she didn't hear Hydaelyn, and then she goes on in the beginning of 5.3 to say that she's never heard her. That implies no Echo awakening, ever.

Just because Urianger surmises something doesn't mean it's correct. Also in the library scene of 5.3, Alphinaud points out that not every hero called a Warrior of Light actually has had the Echo, since it's indistinguishable to the masses. Ryne then makes a dig that, "she knows all too well what it's like to be called something that doesn't feel right." referring to being known as the Oracle of Light until Thancred gave her a name.

As for the visual tell for tempering going back to old cutscenes doesn't help so much. They often invent new tells for things in cutscenes, and it's been consistently used in SHB. Gunhildr's Blades' eyes all glow blue when they get tempered. The energy color associated with primal tempering energy is also always blue.

And for the after effects? Well, she was part of the primal itself, and having a soul already profuse with umbral aspected aether via being the Oracle of Light, there was no shift for her soul. They still haven't gone into the effect of tempering on those who become primals themselves, whether they have the Echo or not, too. There also seem to be individuals who are strong of will that can outright resist tempering without having the Echo ala the person we originally mentioned, Ejika. Despite being enthralled and having hold of another of Eureka's odin type swords and his claim that the Blessing of Light is what shields us from Primal influence, he was completely unaffected too. Somehow. And then keep in mind that Minfilia's powers and therefore Ryne's powers come from the primal Hydaelyn originally, and whether or not everyone with the Blessing of Light is merely tempered by Hydaelyn or not is still explicitly unresolved.

And finally... the vision Ryne shares with the WoL during the events of Ahm Araeng and Minfilia combining with her are a one time thing. Notice that her eyes stayed opened as the vision occurred, though she did put her hand up to the side of her head, vaguely. There are instances of other people sharing visions with the WoL. Gerolt in Bozja, though he was the memory subject who Mikoto was diving into with the crystal foci. There's the airship vision that the WoL has where he hands Cid his goggles, restoring his memory, and Cid shares and accepts that it was the WoL. Also keep in mind that Ryne actually makes no note of anything other than meeting Minfilia, at least right then.

As the game currently stands, there is more evidence for Ryne not having the Echo than there is for her having it. But like the whole Echo vs. Blessing of Light and what they are exactly, it is and likely will continue to be a wishy washy thing to give the scriptwriter's freedom.