Viera and Hrothgar Megathread

[Allegor]

the sideburns are actually painted on the face. You can't tell in those pictures, but it looks AWFUL in character creator and doesn't fit many of the hairstyles.

I noticed that too, genuinely thought it was paint at first and not sideburns lol. Only 1 hairstyle's hairline matches them and it's the one that covers half the face anyways, they just need to move it backwards a little and it'd be good enough, or make them bigger/puffier to better hide the 'ear holes', idk, either way would work.

[Hunky]

Ppl in WoW say that male blood elf looks like women and they look like this, so at this point I'm well beyond trying to understand what looks like a man and what looks like a woman to some tbh.

People really think these dudes look like women? I guess to some people, pretty boys must equal feminine. It's based on the idea that if you're not hypermasculine, you're not masculine at all (some people apply this idea to femininity too).

People might be operating with that idea, and that's why they think these blonde elf guys and male Viera look like women.

Male Viera don't look like females. They just look like youthful men and not as hypermasculine. Some of their options do lend themselves to a more androgynous look, but that's something that the player does deliberately.

Somebody in the Viera thread compared the bearded male Viera to Conchita Wurst. The comparison is pretty funny. But turns out that Conchita Wurst is the drag persona of a male singer. What does that tell you?



The male Viera look fine in terms of masculinity.

They are no more feminine than what you would usually see in a Renaissance-era painting of a young man, or a young male protagonist in an anime series.

If anything, male Viera are very similar to male Midlanders.



On a personal note, I will admit that some of their customization options are a bit jarring to me, but these have nothing to do with masculinity. It's moreso things like smaller foreheads, dramatically slanted eyes, etc.

Despite my small criticisms of the male Viera, I'm actually really happy with them and I can't wait to try one in-game. It's going to be tough choosing between Viera and Elezen.

[Juzjuzz]

If anything, male Viera are very similar to male Midlanders.



On a personal note, I will admit that some of their customization options are a bit jarring to me, but these have nothing to do with masculinity. It's moreso things like smaller foreheads, dramatically slanted eyes, etc.

It's hard to explain with other words but look at how the midlander has a stronger jawline, a less delicate face, the eyes are smaller, eyebrows look more rough and lower... That's what i'm trying to show mostly. Some ppl wanted something closer to midlander or elezen. Ofc not for every face but at least 1 would have been nice that's all.
Tbh some midlanders look androgynous as well just on a smaller amount, it works fine with the viera lore as well. I think 1 midlander face looks very androgynous in a smilar way the male viera do, male viera could have 1 more masculine face in a similar way to midlander or elezen.
But i guess this opinion is blasphemy lol

[Hunky]

It's hard to explain with other words but look at how the midlander has a stronger jawline, a less delicate face, the eyes are smaller, eyebrows look more rough and lower... That's what i'm trying to show mostly. Some ppl wanted something closer to midlander or elezen. Ofc not for every face but at least 1 would have been nice that's all.
Tbh some midlanders look androgynous as well just on a smaller amount, it works fine with the viera lore as well. I think 1 midlander face looks very androgynous in a smilar way the male viera do, male viera could have 1 more masculine face in a similar way to midlander or elezen.
But i guess this opinion is blasphemy lol

It's not blasphemy at all. You are allowed to have a different opinion, and I respect your opinion.

I see what you mean. I would say that male Midlanders are more traditionally masculine.

The male Viera do have more delicate features, but I wouldn't necessarily say this makes them female in appearance.

I did a comparison of the male Viera I liked most and the male Elezen I usually play.




Yeah, I would agree that the Viera isn't as manly as the Elezen (some people might actually say that my Elezen doesn't look manly at all, although I totally disagree). Again, just because you're not hypermasculine doesn't mean you're not masculine at all.

Like you pointed out, some Midlander faces look a little androgynous too, and given both their similarity to Midlanders and their lore, it's no surprise that Male Viera aren't as manly-looking. But they are manly to a degree.

I think it's safe to say that none of us expected male Viera to look like male Highlanders. But we did expect them to look like Midlanders, Miqo'te, Elezen, etc. And I think their current faces are good enough in that sense.

You just have to work with the customization options to achieve the look you want.

[WhiteArchmage]

It's funny how lore is thrown around when it suits our reasons:
- SE: "You can't play M-Viera, they are rare because lore." -> Players: "They should ignore lore"
- Players: "You can't have your options because I don't like it and because of lore, which is holy"

False equivalence and strawmanning:
The Lore excuse for having the males not be playable was just that: an excuse to justify not having them in the game because their models don't exist. But male Viera DO exist in the Lore, they're just rare. And Lorewise we have other races that are supposed to be rare and they're playable. It wasn't said to ignore the Lore, just that their Lore didn't make them unplayable: if the Lore had said there ARE no male Viera and the females just spawn fully formed from the Wood, that would have shut the door on them, but it didn't.
For their appearance: SE wrote their Lore, and their looks are accurate to what said Lore says: Males and Females are indistinguishible until puberty, even when they're naked. In this case it just means that they tend to look similar to one another. This was known way back in Stormblood because of the Dramaturge's dialog, with additions by Matsuno.

[Senn]

It's funny how lore is thrown around when it suits our reasons:
- SE: "You can't play M-Viera, they are rare because lore." -> Players: "They should ignore lore"
- Players: "You can't have your options because I don't like it and because of lore, which is holy"

Don't know why you're so defensive. It's not like I was opposed to viera having a masculine facial option. Also, that comparison doesn't work. Male viera being playable still respects the lore. There's a valid story related reason why they are appearing now. Not only that, but the warrior of light (you as the player) has always been a unique exception. There will probably be a ton of people playing male viera, but those other players don't really "exist" in your story.

This is like asking to get rid of the facial marking from male miqo'te (which grows darker as they age if I remember correctly), wanting lalafell to be 6'0, or wanting the scales removed from au ra. It's in their biology to be the way that they are - just like it's viera biology to be kind of adrogynous. Personality traits and/or decisions a race makes can be flexible. A race's biology on the other hand? I don't know about that.

That being said, I am always for more character customization. I won't be against more face options, but as it stands right now, male viera doesn't seem to be for people who want a more masculine character.

[Juzjuzz]

You just have to work with the customization options to achieve the look you want.

If i could i wouldn't be here.

It's funny that ppl said that in the lore, male and female viera look the same until they hit puberty. That doesn't mean that some males can't change faster than others and end up with a more manly look. It doesn't have to be extreme bulky chad male, just a little bit more than others and less cute.

Aniway i said everything i think.

[BiddyBatnana]

They are perfect ♥

[Senn]

That doesn't mean that some males can't change faster than others and end up with a more manly look.

It also doesn't mean that viera have to develop the same way real humans do (for example: growth spurts/males being taller than females/etc...), which they don't. And frankly, I'm happy about that because I personally think this is more interesting.

They are perfect ♥

Couldn't agree more.

[Ranhansha]

False equivalence and strawmanning:
The Lore excuse for having the males not be playable was just that: an excuse to justify not having them in the game because their models don't exist. But male Viera DO exist in the Lore, they're just rare. And Lorewise we have other races that are supposed to be rare and they're playable. It wasn't said to ignore the Lore, just that their Lore didn't make them unplayable: if the Lore had said there ARE no male Viera and the females just spawn fully formed from the Wood, that would have shut the door on them, but it didn't.
For their appearance: SE wrote their Lore, and their looks are accurate to what said Lore says: Males and Females are indistinguishible until puberty, even when they're naked. In this case it just means that they tend to look similar to one another. This was known way back in Stormblood because of the Dramaturge's dialog, with additions by Matsuno.

As I said, using lore as it suits you. You said it youreself: Lore was an excuse. The moment players demanded males they got males. Now it's the players' turn to use lore against other players who don't share their vision. If their appearance is accurate to their lore, their absence was accurate to their lore as well. How come they are playable now? If thousands of MViera can leave their forests, hundreds of them can have different appearances despite being indistingishible until puberty. Who knows what happens after that? Lore is lore and can be written however you want to make the players' experience better. Most people were just asking for an extra/different face option with said features and others are just like :"NO! Lore says no" Really? After all this time? The excuse is lore? And players are using it?