Your primary job (main) and preferred changes

[GrimGale]

SCH and healers in general:

More things to do beyond one button spam. I don't mind being green dps but at least give us proper and interesting tools to fill healing downtime if you're going to make healing requirements so sparce.

This was issue was raised at the very beginning of shadowbringers. We saw our kits cut down in favor for more healing tools we don't actually need ti use.

[Jirah]

Ima attack all the Ranged DPS rn starting with the easier ones to fix:

BRD

Apex arrow, ok it’s fun to aoe with it and a singularly bar for all songs is nice but either work it in so it can be ST more frequently, give us a ST variant, or have a skill like manaficafion that refills our Soul gauge. While we are at it can we get a skill like Improvisation/Anatman with our songs and halt them so we don’t lose vital numbers doing a transition? And yes the BRD support needs a tune up literally take anything. Also give us the trait of EA wayyyyyy earlier! getting procs pre 68 is a slow boil that kills the job for most and Straight Arrow sucks for 69 levels that is all

DNC

If DNC was a 30 job like god intended it would be the most boring job to level. It has some variant of Old-Style MCH and RDM in there with flourish acting like Reload and Accelerate but you get flourish at 72! And devilment at 60s+ So the job lacks control and structure for the majority of content. The jobs so shallow and straight forward and the support is so passive it hardly makes up for it. A lot of people like it cuz it’s safe and that’s cool but the little dance minigame is hardly engaging due to the lack of threat level. This is a me thing DNC is fine just not for me but it needs some depth


MCH

I’ve gone to so much detail on why I hate this job that I find myself kinda feeling bad for it. A job with the fewest skills in the game with a identity issue, that has extra fat to shave off ontop of all that and has a hyper fragmented approach for accessibly is somthing I wouldn’t color as a improvement for a Ranged support, with no support nor a selfish dps with lax gameplay. Rework it any literal other way and it’ll be much better than the malnourished beta job we have now. So much so I can’t pinpoint any way to improve it

[MintnHoney]

Despite everything, I still main AST. I would like to see more emphasis on astrology and fortune telling.
I put this in another thread in the healer forums, but, if I could, I would suggest changing our "Draw" ability into "Astrology" to allow us the ability to do an astrological reading for either "Life" (targeting allies only, provides a random healing effect), "Death" (targeting enemies only, provides a random damaging effect), or "Fortune" (target either alllies or enemies, provides a random buff (allies) or debuff (enemies)), depending on the Astrological sign we get for our reading (we have 6 currently). I would have us learn to do these different readings at different levels, starting at level 30 with Life, then Death at 40, and Fortune at 50. I'll skip giving examples in this thread.

In anticipation of the upcoming (unfortunate, imo) removal of shields, the removal of sects would also keep things clean, and maybe help to push AST into a healing identity.

Aside from Divination, which I believe should just be on a strict cooldown (and that we should just drop the seals and split the diff to make it a 5% buff), I would also like to drop damage up buffs from our repertoire (we should have other, weirder effects), and give them to WHM (on whom, I believe, it would make more sense to have something more direct and deliberate, and they need utility anyway), perhaps as an enhancement to their Asylum ability or an additional ability/spell (Bravery?), or both.

Finally, though this one's just frivolous, I would have them change the way Malefic deals damage to be a number of tiny attacks, represented as small shooting stars, dealing 10 (or maybe more as they increase in level) potency each, equaling the total potency of the current level of Malefic (e.g., Malefic IV potency is 250, if the potency of each hit was 10, it would be 25 tiny hits).

[Vatom]

Ninja remove bushin and turn shikuchi into shadow clone that you can swap with and the mirror your jutsu only also give back my dang crit katsu(I know i spelled it wrong) and my double dmg ten chi jin i don't understand why it was removed.

[Avidria]

This is probably gonna be wildly unpopular and I doubt it'll ever happen, but I'd get rid of the positionals entirely. I've never found them fun, and there's enough BS to keep track of in this game already that I really don't think they add much. They kept me off playing any melee at all for years, which is a shame because I actually love just about everything else about nin. Otherwise idk. Maybe make less things interrupt mudras?

[Canadane]

Warrior.
Okay so you know how Inner Beast got upgraded to Fell Cleave, and then Fell Cleave got upgraded to Inner Chaos, and we can further expand on that with an Inner Release window of unlimited Inner Chaos'?

Well what if we were to go... further?

[Dragonblanco]

SCH and healers in general:

More things to do beyond one button spam. I don't mind being green dps but at least give us proper and interesting tools to fill healing downtime if you're going to make healing requirements so sparce.

This was issue was raised at the very beginning of shadowbringers. We saw our kits cut down in favor for more healing tools we don't actually need ti use.

Yeah, I kind of get curious about all that. I think developers intent vs player base really is completely far apart when it comes to healers. The main purpose healers had the dps skills they had was so quests could be completed. Sure, weave in dps rather than sitting there doing nothing, but I really don't think they ever intended there to be such a heavy push for healer DPS as people expect. I know everyone says it's "necessary" for harder content, which I can't say either way due to not experiencing it myself. That said, I have watched raids and all that I have participated in and those healers trying to get that dps going often end up letting a lot of people die. The dps loss from that death far surpasses anything the healer can do.

I ran into similar situations in other games where a lot of so-called elitists who went by theorycrafting swore by ABC, Always Be Casting. Yet me, who often watched mechanics and did pause casting, ended up getting Realm First and a lot more progression much faster than they did. The reason is as good as ABC is on paper, people don't factor in human error. That's a long discussion in itself.

And to reiterate an earlier point, you do know Yoshi P himself said in an interview that they don't expect healer dps, right? You can check it out at https://youtu.be/5la_nyC5BO0?t=287 from one of the streamers who had the interview a while back. The answer was :

First of all, we do not expect healers to contribute to DPS. However we know a lot of the cutting edge players enjoy this aspect about the job and that those progressing in the raids early on use it to help clear the fights. We decided to make it so that the idea was more approachable and less punishing so that if a player wants to try it, they aren't sacrificing all of their healing capabilities to do so like they were with the old Cleric Stance. We didn't like seeing healers doing entire dungeons in Cleric Stance, especially if they forget to switch back and heal!

That being said, I want you to really reinforce this with your viewers, I firmly believe it shouldn't be mandatory and we do NOT have the expectation of them to DPS."

I'm going to trust those words from the staff over the years to say that it's not required and people who push it and say it is just are going too hard on min/max and need to enjoy the game, learn mechanics, and pay attention.

[Dreamsoap]

I just want slow on Gravity. I want to be a real time mage, not a tarot buffer.

[Ayuhra]

I haven't taken Dancer far at all but when I was toying with it I noticed I tended to proc almost any time I crit. So definitely adding crit and using (can't think of the skill, but one to increase crit rate) does help. I mean, need people to test and verify that if not done already, but was something little more promising. But I do agree it would be nice if it wasn't so proc heavy. I also wish it had a little more personal dps.

I mean it's not a completely unpredictable rotation or anything it's just not a set rotation you can do with your UI turned off.

[GrimGale]

I'm going to trust those words from the staff over the years to say that it's not required and people who push it and say it is just are going too hard on min/max and need to enjoy the game, learn mechanics, and pay attention.

The point is, healers (mostly WHM and SCH) spend long stretches of time spamming their single target damage spell. The new healing tools they were given in SHB, when needed at all, actually free them to cast even more damage spells. The devs didn't design a game that requires constant triage and sustain healing, as the damage to the party comes in seldom and predictable bursts. AoE healing blankets the whole raid and enough potency as to not usually be needed anymore after each unavoidable AoE.

So healers often find themselves with little to do afterwards.

It doesn't matter that "dps" isn't required for progression. Healing in this game is a situational need. Overhealing has no benefit whartoever. Damage is always useful. Does that mean healers should not heal and focus on dps? Absolutely not, but if they do the opposite, they will often sit idly for long stretches of time.

It doesn't matter that some healers tunelvision and don't heal the party. Some DPS also don't make effective use of their tools, would the solution then be to cut each DPS job skill kit to three buttons? They wouldn't possibly mess up then!

WHM and SCH, and at a lesser degree AST, who has the card system to fill healing downtime, either need more interesting tools to fill their downtime, or see the healing requirements go up so they can use their healing kits most of the time. As it is, its about 70% damage and 30% healing in most content. (E12s being a notable exception)