"Serious" Bard 6.0 predicted/suggested kit

[Warlyx]

Some rumors have been coming in of Bard getting at least a partial rework, so been thinking about that a bit this morning.

First off, it definitely does not mean there's going to be a job split, or a 50% support class (even 20% is doubtful), or anything like that. It's also unlikely to be as large of a rework as Summoner, or 5.0 Machinist, else they probably would have said something.

I could see a Ninja/Monk level deal though. SE has likely seen a lot of feedback about Bard being overwhelming for some people, a lot to track etc., so I wouldn't be surprised at all if they react to that with some sweeping changes.

A few guesses as to what we might see, not all of these at once obviously, just spitballing things I could see SE doing -

:: A rework of the support system only, replacing song passives and BV with something more intentionally constructed a la the way AST's support is a "system". (imo: yay)

:: Getting rid of the songs=stances idea and going back to 2.x with River of Blood, make the songs into support skills / buffs. So we'd only have BL/RoD procs, but we'd have them full-time. Then tie PP to Soul Gauge, like it spends 20 or something, buff Apex to the moon, and do stuff like EA gives 10 gauge, songs give gauge etc. (imo: depends on details but can be ok)

:: A 4.x pvp-style setup where procs are tied to GCDs against DoT'd enemies instead of on DoT ticks. They could still be non-guaranteed, but SE might like the idea of giving people stable proc timing. (imo: mild sadness)

this ! ,isnt that hard ,2.0 bard but with improved gameplay

the song stances are annoying

dont feel bard-ly enough , we need songs that provide utility !

[Jirah]

this ! ,isnt that hard ,2.0 bard but with improved gameplay

the song stances are annoying

dont feel bard-ly enough , we need songs that provide utility !

We hate offhanded support skills for BRD and that’s why I’m excited to see offhanded support skills for BRD! Yea no. the job design is there and well constructed just poorly paced and with a few extra screws That need tightening like Apex or revamped like troubadour and Paean that is all I want! I don’t want these crappy “FF14 great value” reworks MNK MCH AST and SCH got and if you don’t like it move on to another job. Not ever job needs to please everyone that’s what happened to MCH which wasn’t a retooling more of a reduction.

Comparisons to DNC and BRD interest me cuz they both have support passively used within theirs damage kit (songs/steps) so the legit question is why does it work with DNC but not BRD? BRD has the more enticing kit with plenty of variance and DNC can get incredibly repetitive and what both jobs do is so routine it often doesn’t feel like support unless you waltz or Minne or Battle voice

[Cetonis]

I think it "works" for Dancer because Dancer didn't have a superior 4.x design to compare to. There was no existing base of happy Dancer players that felt like their kit basically got downgraded by 10 levels instead of upgraded by 10 levels.

It also "works" because the buffs you're giving as a Dancer feel impactful - 5% full time damage increase, 20% Chit +DH for 20s, 5% party wide damage for 20s every 2 minutes. Curing Waltz sprays a pile of green numbers on your screen.

Meanwhile Bard has... 1% damage, 2% crit, a single 3m party buff that's fine but very par for the course (i.e. Summoner gets one of those). Minne is a nice skill but doesn't jump out in your face with its impact. Warden's is impactful when it matters but rarely does.

In 4.x Refresh, bad idea notwithstanding, felt impactful. Foe was smallish at 3% damage, but lasted a fair while and you could have it up often if you put a little effort in. Palisade was less up front but it's a little easier to feel mitigation on a big tank buster compared to i.e. Minne. And just the sheer number of support buttons drove home the idea of being a support-heavy dps.

5.x Bard's damage support is just lame, and the utility support while nice is lesser than 4.x so it's hard to feel good about it. If SE is to quell all the griping in 6.x, they need to find a way to make Bard's support feel impactful. Replacing the current song passives and/or BV with some newly devised setup would be the clearest route to doing so; I was just saying that while I'm not necessarily enthused by the idea, I could see SE also sacrificing the songs=stances concept in the process.

[Jirah]

I think it "works" for Dancer because Dancer didn't have a superior 4.x design to compare to. There was no existing base of happy Dancer players that felt like their kit basically got downgraded by 10 levels instead of upgraded by 10 levels.

It also "works" because the buffs you're giving as a Dancer feel impactful - 5% full time damage increase, 20% Chit +DH for 20s, 5% party wide damage for 20s every 2 minutes. Curing Waltz sprays a pile of green numbers on your screen.

Meanwhile Bard has... 1% damage, 2% crit, a single 3m party buff that's fine but very par for the course (i.e. Summoner gets one of those). Minne is a nice skill but doesn't jump out in your face with its impact. Warden's is impactful when it matters but rarely does.

In 4.x Refresh, bad idea notwithstanding, felt impactful. Foe was smallish at 3% damage, but lasted a fair while and you could have it up often if you put a little effort in. Palisade was less up front but it's a little easier to feel mitigation on a big tank buster compared to i.e. Minne. And just the sheer number of support buttons drove home the idea of being a support-heavy dps.

5.x Bard's damage support is just lame, and the utility support while nice is lesser than 4.x so it's hard to feel good about it. If SE is to quell all the griping in 6.x, they need to find a way to make Bard's support feel impactful. Replacing the current song passives and/or BV with some newly devised setup would be the clearest route to doing so; I was just saying that while I'm not necessarily enthused by the idea, I could see SE also sacrificing the songs=stances concept in the process.

Now I understand it but BRD & DNC are pretty similar in the support regard give or take a few lateral skills. Passive buffs to benefit themselves aswell and if we disregard numbers both are equally impactful. But with DNC they rely on theirs partner for espirt while BRD doesn’t and has a more disciplined kit. Now if numbers are impactful to someone in this specific instance, which to me it isn’t, then sure DNC has the better numbers but honestly would BRD be fixed with even numbers to it? Not that I’d care cuz my concern is for the songs it already had and it’s Soul gauge

[Easayia]

So as a Bard Main only starting to play the game around the end of Storm Blood and now Shadow Bringers I really like your suggestions even the optional ones for lower levels. Going back and doing older content as a bard is rough because of how little things proc I feel so useless in compared to how fast the gameplay can get in Shadow Bringers. and would love to see even more support skills what we currently have is decent and I do like how current bard plays but I think it just needs a few things to power it up a bit more and also please both sides of the coin Archer and Bards of all MMOs ever.

1. We need 1 AOE dot application skill to empower our dots when we are hitting multiple enemies.
. While I have gotten very use to applying dots while moving in a dungeon before getting to each pack as well as applying dots between each arrow rain when using ballad its the only Job that currently needs to do this.....
. My suggestion for this would be applying the normal dot skills but when using Iron Jaws on a target you not only reset the duration of the skill but a musical note tornado type of animation is triggered creating an AOE and applying the dot to all the enemies in the area

2. Bard Feels Very Awkward when skills dont trigger with the dots. When I use ballad just as an example I use Burst shot > Blood letter > burst shot >blood letter but sometimes the blood letter doesn't proc and if your Empyreal Arrow is not up you just start only using your burst shot hoping the skill will bloody proc. (basically fix this awkwardness that tends to happen)

3. 4th song I do think a 4th song idea you mentioned that extremely buffs up the party and had maybe musical notes flying around all players would be super cool to see.
. Heck make bard enter a performance mode where they put that bow on their back wip out an instrument of the players choosing ( the ones you are able to permform with) and enter a state where all their skills do less damage and have musical animations on all your attacks playing from the instrument not a bow. But meanwhile your party is getting a huge damage buff maybe even an extreme skill speed buff like 10% or something Im not sure on the % but I can just imagine it so clearly. (please note while your hitting weaker your party is doing the extra damage you are lacking durring this mode and then some so your not losing overall party DPS your gaining it)

. Basically 4th song would make the bard an actual bard for a bit rather then the hybrid its always been. Maybe as well the 4th song would empower our 3 remaining support skills example:

Wardens Paeon > removes all detrimental effects from the party

Troubadour > Damage taken recieved reduced by 15-20% ( again percentages would have to be messed with.)

Natures Minne > HP recovery 40% to self or target or just increase all healing recieved to the entire party

. Also make this song only usable when either filling up some new gauge or after going through x amount of total current songs

Bard Does not need a complete rework Bard just needs to do something more with its instruments in terms of animations as well as have a moment where its not strictly a Archer. Again all Ideas but a performance mode song would be super neat to see and will actually make Bard feel more like a bard for its duration. Bard has always felt like archer first quick butten press for music then back to bow let us strum our instruments more and you make all bards very happy!

[anhaato]

Some of these comments horrify me, no BRD should not be made simpler! The whole point of the job is that it's active! If you gut its procs, what do you have left, spamming burst shot? Absolutely NOT! If Square actually is pushed into simplifying this job then they'll end up killing phys ranged as a whole, because MCH and DNC are beyond braindead. We just need ways to prevent overcapping and better support. A 120/110s song rotation would be cute and all but I don't honestly believe it's that necessary, and if the option exists to go 110s then we'll end up clipping off AP early either way. I feel that would only be realistic if they made AP better than a useless haste buff. They also need to get rid of army's muse entirely, honestly, it just makes double weaving way too difficult.

But I'm glad that most people here are stressing otherwise. This job doesn't need a rework at all, just some enhancements and removal of self-detrimental mechanics.

[Shurrikhan]

:: Single-target Apex Arrow + Soul Voice II

Please no more "X, but single-target, to make us differentiate between singular and plural as if that were meaningful gameplay" bloat mechanics.

:: A new healing cooldown to compete with Curing Waltz

If the only way one can compete with X is a barely altered copy of it, then it's time to reassess the situation.

:: A trait changing Raging Strikes and Barrage to 55s cooldowns

For what reason, though. The more 90 or near-90 cooldowns you remove, the more you just force any and all kits towards 60s intervals. While that difference isn't vital to differentiating jobs, the advantages in removing that difference do not seem to outweigh that differentiation.

:: A fourth super-song on a 110s cooldown. (Ideally carrying a large party buff)

This, too, sounds like bloat, especially so long as Battle Voice remains already a thing.

All that being said, I like most of your "(Valuable)" and "(Optional)" suggestions.

[Jirah]

Some of these comments horrify me, no BRD should not be made simpler! The whole point of the job is that it's active! If you gut its procs, what do you have left, spamming burst shot? Absolutely NOT! If Square actually is pushed into simplifying this job then they'll end up killing phys ranged as a whole, because MCH and DNC are beyond braindead. We just need ways to prevent overcapping and better support. A 120/110s song rotation would be cute and all but I don't honestly believe it's that necessary, and if the option exists to go 110s then we'll end up clipping off AP early either way. I feel that would only be realistic if they made AP better than a useless haste buff. They also need to get rid of army's muse entirely, honestly, it just makes double weaving way too difficult.

But I'm glad that most people here are stressing otherwise. This job doesn't need a rework at all, just some enhancements and removal of self-detrimental mechanics.

Im with you on that, the sole reason why people stress over BRD is because it’s a very long rift between that and its infant sister DNC and lobotomized brother MCH. it does NOT and let me reiterate it does NOT need to be simplified to please a bunch of Dils that never ever and I mean ever liked it’s play-style to begin with. I’m with and empathize with the SB mains who got short handed going into SHB but it’s core is pretty good in terms of job design and I see absolutely no benefit to grinding it down to dust so people will mindlessly do 1-2-3 like MCH or 1-2 like DNC to be pleased.

Apex is crap and if ST apex is too bloaty why not a way to grant more control over the gauge to align it with the burst phase similar in vein but not identical to Anatman or Barrel stabilizers . Minne is a literal polar opposite of Waltz and we don’t need our Support to be homogenized. If the support is too shallow make it more dynamic like a mechanic. Or at the very least give Minne charges similar to essential dignity. Double goes to Paean, it’s not bad it’s the content has so few enfeeblments to Esuna off and most new Bards never use it or rather, have Paean be aoe that would make it much more impactful.

[Cetonis]

Please no more "X, but single-target, to make us differentiate between singular and plural as if that were meaningful gameplay" bloat mechanics.

Hey, it is part prediction. Regardless of how much I like the idea, it's just what SE does 99% of the time with such things. If it comes with faster gauge gen though, I'll take the bargain. Basically gives us the old Straight Shot back.

If the only way one can compete with X is a barely altered copy of it, then it's time to reassess the situation.

A regen song, by way of example, would function vastly differently from Waltz. And odds of Waltz going anywhere seem miniscule, so I'd rather see SE amend the imbalance there if possible.

For what reason, though.

Because player feedback has been 90s is bad, nobody wants to play 90s jobs, every 'meta' comp ends up revolving around 1m/2m, etc. I agree that, ideally, SE would just have enough buffs on the 90s timeline to make a comp out of it. But they've never done so. It wouldn't be a surprise if they just homogenized at some point, rather than leaving Monk out to dry for all eternity. I'd prefer they just give the new jobs 90s stuff, but that's been true every expac and has never happened.

This, too, sounds like bloat, especially so long as Battle Voice remains already a thing.

I'd hope for it not to remain in exactly the same form, yes.


Anyway, on the benchmark, we saw:

- What seemed to either be an upgraded Nock or a combo off of Nock, or a conal Refulgent. Not terribly surprising.

- A large single target skill that is, probably, the solo Apex. Would be a surprise to have a big single hit that didn't work off the gauge.

- A brief windy aura mostly-off-screen that doesn't seem to match existing skills under brief inspection. Could be anything really.

[Sindal]

Silly Ideas:

-Apex arrow getting a secondary effect. I don't really 'mind' Apex arrow but to make it more bardy while remaining archery, it could have a supportive side effective. Maybe if you hit a 100 shot, it lowers the cooldown of battlevoice to psudo provide more utlity to your party (Since battle voice is supposed to be out party buff). Adding 'another song' on top of it would probalby just be bloat so I avoided that idea, but it's an idea too If you land 100 on Apex Arrow, you sing a new song for 15 seconds that does X. Or a passive buff that enhances the 'song' buff to your allied of your next skill. Something that says "I'm landing damage and I'm inspiring my allies)

-Army's Paeon feeling a little more impactful. Always seems like a waste that Rep triggers after the 4th trigger don't do anything for the rest of the song. This would never work but something like Proccing Rep when you've obtained all 4 stacks of AP gives you a buff called 'Army's focus' for 30 seconds. Your next weaponskill gets a small potency bonus and consumes the buff . It's the weaponspeedup song, it might as well occasinally make those songs a little tuffer too. Doesn't change how you'd play, would just make you feel a little cooler.

-Barrage just causing you to fire 3 Straight shots or 3 Refulgent arrow on button press instead of pressing barrage then SS or RA. There's nothing else you'd ever spend it on, so why give it an extra step. You can't use it for quick nock, and it doesn't make sense to use it on any of your other weapon skills since they have other uses, so...

-Repelling shot being less awful to use. Dancers zoom about with 3 stacks of their dash with ease, so something atleast similar in usefulness would be nice. Either give it a secondary effect(A snare, A blind to help with mitigation, A combo step, a bit of damage, an ambient speed boost for a few seconds after using. Something) or remove it's target requirement since the hop itself isn't very far.

-Nature's Minne having a purpose. I see you out there healers. Yall doing amazing. To the point that you don't really 'need' me to make you heal harder on the tank with all your amazing healing toos. I could slap it on someone but chances are high they woulda been fine anyway. Maybe [I]"A player under the effects of Nature's Minne gains Double or triple the benefits from your passive song buffs for it's duration or if we're keeping it as a defensive buff, maybe slap a TINY regen with the boosted healing to make it synergize.

-A trait that gives you stacking benefits if you don't drop the song and continue playing. What kind of benefit? Not sure. Maybe the passive increase your songs give to your allies get stronger this way so by the time you've cycled back to Wander's for the second time, it's passive bonus is stronger. Would be a nice extra incentive to make sure you're always playing a song