Harassment to Asmongold on his 1st day stream is an Embarassment to FF Community

[Kaurhz]

First, the fact that SE works harder to keep it's toxic community in check is great, but that only reflects positively on SE, not the community. This isn't a "better" community; it's a typical toxic online community that is being ruled with an iron fist in-game. Kudos to SE, but the community is still a typical toxic dumpster fire.

It's almost a testament to how toxic the community is that even under SE's prison camp leadership that this communities toxic elements were still so pervasive when given a little motivation. One pseudo-celebrity playing for a couple of days and people are willing to lose their accounts just to be jerks; it definitely says something about this community.

The GMs are as only as good as the community that is proactively reporting the behavior. The GMs aren't going around and checking the logs of absolutely everyone with no apparent reason, they're being reported, and they're being reported by the players. So yes it reflects just as well on the community when they show how unwelcome they find this behavior in-game, by, you know, sending a report into GMs. Given how some people on the forums, and on the game would have you believe that you can be reported for merely having a pulse and clanging your fingers on the keyboard I would say both the community and the GMs are doing a good job. But alas when someone gets banned we're all just soft little plushie babies with a snowflake complex that doesn't tolerate any form of harassment.

You'd find this behavior practically prevalent on any game that is being played by an established streamer, that's the cost of being a streamer, especially a well-known one. Every game has toxic circles of communities, that is at least true. But to give the community overall no merit whatsoever is just silly. People were banned for it, quite a lot of people also seemed to find the behavior largely unwelcoming, and I would daresay people probably arranged groups for mass reporting those that were attempting to sabotage his experience.

[linayar]

First, the fact that SE works harder to keep it's toxic community in check is great, but that only reflects positively on SE, not the community. This isn't a "better" community; it's a typical toxic online community that is being ruled with an iron fist in-game. Kudos to SE, but the community still is what it is.

It's almost a testament to how toxic FFXIV is underneath, that even under SE's prison camp leadership that this communities toxic elements were still so pervasive when given a little motivation. One pseudo-celebrity playing for a couple of days and people are willing to lose their accounts just to be jerks; it definitely says something about the community.

Not saying that every single person in the community is bad, but the community as a whole has no moral-high ground to use against any other online game.

No, it doesn't. If anything, it shows how popular Asmongold is (hate him or love him), that he would incite such reactions.

When the US claims to be the land of the free, do you know what supports that claim? The law. An important part of a game's community is how that community is governed by the game's ToS.

You're basically just saying that the community is bad because human nature is bad. It's the law that shapes society and governs interactions. That's how you judge a community, not by whether humans will still behave well if there is no rules in place.

People who speak out against those bad behaviors is a much better showing of the community's response.

[Goji1639]

The GMs are as only as good as the community that is proactively reporting the behavior. The GMs aren't going around and checking the logs of absolutely everyone with no apparent reason, they're being reported, and they're being reported by the players. So yes it reflects just as well on the community when they show how unwelcome they find this behavior in-game, by, you know, sending a report into GMs.

You'd find this behavior practically prevalent on any game that is being played by an established streamer, that's the cost of being a streamer, especially a well-known one. Every game has toxic circles of communities, that is at least true. But to give the community overall no merit whatsoever is just silly. People were banned for it, quite a lot of people also seemed to find the behavior largely unwelcoming, and I would daresay people probably arranged groups for mass reporting those that were attempting to sabotage his experience.

Do you really think people in other games don't report ToS violations? FFXIV's community isn't unique or special in that regard; SE's willingness to act on them is the only difference between FFXIV and every other online game. The FFXIV community itself has done nothing to distinguish itself as being nicer than other online communities.

This Asmongold situation was just an opportunity for the community to show that it's better; but what happened was expectedly the standard fare for yet another toxic online community. The idea constantly being thrown around is that the FFXIV community is different, but it's really not.

[linayar]

SE's willingness to act on them is the only difference between FFXIV and every other online game.

And that is why FFXIV can foster a great community. Bad behaviors are restrained (for the most part), and its effect is reflected by people noticing the difference.

[Almagnus1]

LANGUAGE WARNING!

So to summarize this entire thing, here's Asmongold's response to seeing the SE response:

https://youtu.be/DJ_u1DJkbjY

It's great that he's enjoying his time here, but anyone that's still stream sniping is welcoming a ban. Our GMs have done the completely expected at this point and (hopefully) this will curtail any further gate keeping toxicity related to Asmongold (or any other streamer or group for that matter). Hopefully Asmongold's time as a warrior of light will leave him a better person, and he will stick around for a long time.

[Goji1639]

And that is why FFXIV can foster a great community. Bad behaviors are restrained (for the most part), and its effect is reflected by people noticing the difference.

That's kind of like saying maximum security prisons are great communities because all the murderers are behaving. Great communities don't need to be subdued by armed guards to keep from attacking people. In Asmons case even SE standing there with guns wasn't enough to deter this "great" community.

[Kaurhz]

Do you really think people in other games don't report ToS violations? FFXIV's community isn't unique or special in that regard; SE's willingness to act on them is the only difference between FFXIV and every other online game. The FFXIV has done literally nothing to distinguish itself as being nicer than other online communities.

This Asmongold situation was just an opportunity for the community to show that it's different; but what happened was expectedly the standard fare for yet another toxic online community. The idea constantly being thrown around is that the FFXIV community is different, but it's really not.

I never made that assertion in the first place, my only comment was that the GMs are as good as the community. The community needs to submit reports in order for action to be taken, so it speaks as much of the community as it does the GMs. You seemed pretty apparent in trying to make it clear that SE is the only one doing the legwork here when it is a joint effort by both the players and the GMs to create action and response. If the community were as toxic as you like to believe or the people were trying to paint then these reports would scarcely happen, simple as. - We'd be too busy clawing at each other's throats.

If you are going to use every passing opportunity to paint the entire community with the same brush as what is inarguably behavior exhibited by a minority, then I hate to say it but no collective would conform to your standard of a good community, be it this game, any other game, or otherwise even real life. I've seen just as many people criticizing the behavior and utterly knocking it as there are people exhibiting it in the first place.

It's not that I'm saying this community has no toxic behavior, because it does, but quite a few other people seem awfully keen on painting the entire community with the same brush and label as what is arguably only a small amount of the playerbase exhibiting the behavior. Nah, people reporting this behavior? Definitely not showing defiance and disdain for those displaying the behavior

[linayar]

That's kind of like saying maximum security prisons are great communities because all the murderers are behaving. Great communities don't need to be subdued by armed guards to keep from attacking people. In Asmons case even SE standing there with guns wasn't enough to deter this "great" community.

Prisoners are not free to leave. Community members are free to leave if they don't want to behave well.

Prisoners are not getting kicked out for behaving badly. Community members will get banned if they do.

SE is not subduing anyone with armed guards.

[Goji1639]

Snip

My point is that this community is pretty much the same as every other online community, with the standard amount of toxicity and bad people.

These little passing opportunities are how FFXIV would distinguish itself from other online communities, if FFXIV wanted to claim some kind of moral superiority. Any time the community is tested like this the result will be the same, though, because this community isn't actually any different.

Prisoners are not free to leave. Community members are free to leave if they don't want to behave well.

Prisoners are not getting kicked out for behaving badly. Community members will get banned if they do.

SE is not subduing anyone with armed guards.

Obviously not literal armed guards; they're subduing people with a threat of expulsion like prisoners are subdued with threat of removal from gen pop or worse. People in FFXIV are sort of behaving sometimes for the same general reason as prisoners behave; very strict rules.

[Kaurhz]

My point is that this community is pretty much the same as every other online community, with the standard amount of toxicity and bad people.

These little passing opportunities are how FFXIV would distinguish itself from other online communities, if FFXIV wanted to claim some kind of moral superiority. Any time the community is tested like this the result will be the same, though, because this community isn't actually any different.

Sure, it can be just as good, it can be just as bad, but people seem awfully eager to point out the bad, exclusively. with giving very little merit to the good, all just to try and promote the cause of sticking it to the evangelists - The people actually going out there and reporting those sabotaging the experience of someone who just wants to enjoy the game and stream it to his community are worthy of praise not disdain by painting them with the same brush of absurd toxicity.

But like I said if you paint the community with the same brush as the behavior displayed by a minority, then no community will ever reach your standard of conforming to a good community, ever. That's just basic human interaction and behavior. No matter how well regarded or spoken that community is. XIV is no exception. People here are just using the opportunity to 'stick it to the evangelists' - In this regard just as bad as each other.

EDIT: But I see at this point I'm not exactly disagreeing with you, more just venting.