This game doesn't do enough to help people clear Ex/Savage content.

[DrWho2010]

High end content isn't meant to be convenient, it's supposed to be challenging, including getting organized for it. Devs are not going to be holding player's hands after a certain point. IT IS ON YOU TO GET THINGS DONE.

they said the true raid is getting everyone's schedules together.

[Goji1639]

High end content isn't meant to be convenient, it's supposed to be challenging, including getting organized for it. Devs are not going to be holding player's hands after a certain point. IT IS ON YOU TO GET THINGS DONE.

they said the true raid is getting everyone's schedules together.

Believe me, I understand this but it's stupid. Easy/boring content that ONLY is made difficult by the fact that it's so horribly inconvenient is the bread and butter of this kind of MMO.

Honestly, it's why I always find it kind of silly when MMORPG players try to talk about "skill."

Inconvenient for the sake of inconvenient will always be stupid.

[DrWho2010]

THEN DONT PLAY THIS KIND OF MMO.

[Goji1639]

THEN DONT PLAY THIS KIND OF MMO.

Most of this game is really well done and a lot of fun. It's just the endgame that's a disaster. No challenging/engaging content; just easy crap gated by severe inconvenience.

[Nethereal]

Right, you can make your own group that takes hours to fill and disbands after 3 wipes, because most people who join learning parties are still just hoping they'll luck into a situation where they can get carried. People who want to learn but don't already have a static have no reasonable way in.

Trusts are the answer; SE just needs to go all in on them.

This game is casual friendly in a lot of ways, but I do agree with this thread in that it does a horrible job of giving casual players a way into the more challenging content. I've personally kind of given up on this game in that regard. I am looking forward to Lost Ark, though.

Hours to fill? Fairly disingenuous. Ultimate party finders take hours to fill, sometimes the final dungeon of the tier will take an hour if that, the rest? Nah. I was also specifically talking about making a static if you're serious about getting personal growth.


I would say it's honestly not that bad the main issue is people will bash you for making mistakes every now and again but there are plenty people genuinely looking to learn.

I recently joined a fresh prog e10s group and spent an hour wiping for our peak to only be seeing void gate 2.
The main issue was one of our tanks was brand new to not only the tier but also raiding, and tanking in general.
Only level 80 was their tank and they were in 520 crafted gear with a 530 savage belt. No extreme weapon, probably no extreme clears either. They simply weren't ready for the content they were putting themselves in.
That said 7 other people still suffered through an hour with them with minimal chide and quite a bit of explaining and help.

Are there people looking for a free carry like OP? Yes. Does every single learning party disband after 3 wipes? No.

I am looking forward to Sword of Legends Online specifically because of the concept of one of their healers.

[DrWho2010]

Most of this game is really well done and a lot of fun. It's just the endgame that's a disaster. No challenging/engaging content; just easy crap gated by severe inconvenience.

ok then you don't want to play by the endgame rules, then you don't get to do endgame. have fun with everything else.

[Goji1639]

Snip

Hours; an hour; the process of learning is still unnecessarily inconvenient. It's not like trusts will stop any of you from sitting in PF or on discord and hoping the party you eventually get actually allows you some decent practice. Guaranteed legitimate practice for as long as I want, immediately whenever I want, will always be the superior option.

I watched some video for Sword of Legends; the gameplay looks fun.

ok then you don't want to play by the endgame rules, then you don't get to do endgame. have fun with everything else.

But I would do endgame if practice weren't so stupidly and unnecessarily inconvenient, same for a lot of other people. I'm just suggesting a way to fix the worst, most unpopular part of the game.

[Nethereal]

Hours; an hour; the process of learning is still unnecessarily inconvenient. It's not like trusts will stop any of you from sitting in PF or on discord and hoping the party you eventually get actually allows you some decent practice. Guaranteed legitimate practice for as long as I want will always be the superior option.

I watched some video for Sword of Legends; the gameplay looks fun.

I can honestly say I've never played a game that has had guaranteed legitimate practice and I've reached end game in:

Tera Online, Flyff, Mabinogi, Cabal Online, ESO, Black Desert Online, Grand Chase, Dragon Nest, Elsword, Kritika, Tree of Savior, and a multitude of other games that escape my mind at this moment.

All of the above games have harder content in general and if not out right no practice in general outside your basic class knowledge and skill.
The only real difference between these games and FFXIV is that they do not accept mediocrity in their player base, you have all the practice you need leading up to end game.
It's now in your hands whether you ascend out of the fire or burn down to the ashes.

So while I'm not saying we should accept mediocrity how is what FFXIV doing any worse than any other game on the market in this aspect?
Does not punishing player failure early on and rewarding inability to properly play create that much of a disconnect in the difficulty curves?

Also what games do you know of that offer 'guaranteed legitimate practice'?

[MrMagic]

This is just a ridiculous argument. If you know the mechanics and know what YOU'RE supposed to do then it doesn't matter if it's a trust or a real group. A trust is more pressure than a real group because you end up shouldering the majority of the responsibility for mechanics, and if you screw up and die you're starting over; no res. If you can perform well in a trust you'll be fine in a real group.

So by eliminating chaos caused by human parties and replace it with insta wipe, this is supposed to be same same? Ok then.

[TaleraRistain]

Otherwise the vast majority of the population just won't ever bother with the content because there's no good way to learn it.

I mean, is there really anything wrong with some optional content that not everyone does? Every piece of optional content has necessary requirements. Gold Saucer games have rules to follow. Crafting and gathering requires time and gearing up. And if someone wants to tackle Extremes or Savage there are certain requirements there. Nobody gets upset or asks questions on why an entire server isn't out there chocobo racing. It really doesn't matter if there are players where Extremes and Savage aren't their cup of tea. The content will still get development time. And since those doing it will be those who want to be there doing it, then it should get some good feedback on how to improve.

Also, with Trusts everything resets when you die. So you don't have the ability to ask someone "Hey what hit me" and someone will be able to help you. It would be pretty dreadful for someone trying to learn.

Oh, and "the worst, most unpopular part of the game" is fishing.