Living dead must change

[Agner]

Where's the part where the damage that we've received gives rise to a dark and twisted aura? I feel like we're cherry picking parts of the lore that excuse the status quo.

Right, it wasn't really intended to be much of an excuse—more just an attempted explanation as to why we rear our heads towards the heavens and ask "dear god, why did you give us this horrible ability?".

Does it really say that?
Haha that's kinda cute. I wonder what other cute fluff in there I've missed.
And yeah, your comment makes me wonder if the devs find it fun... or more conceptually interesting.

Yeah, it says: "This dark art allows the practitioner to continue fighting through the most heinous of injuries, and exhibit an immunity to pain usually attributed to the shambling undead. Though undeniably effective, abandoning one’s corporeal form to negative energy in this manner, however briefly, is an act fraught with mortal peril."

Where's the dark twisted aura? I'm pretty sure that players have been asking for a proper darkness aura on DRK since its release, like what we get in the cutscenes. Where's the blood armor? Does the damage received get turned into some kind of defensive tool? I mean, the lore description actually sounds like something interesting.

Maybe one of DRK's Endwalker abilities will be to sit in a corner and get ignored like usual. Seriously though, we've been asking since Heavensward!

Why not just remove invulns period and force people to do mechanics.

I wish, man. Most succinct thing I've heard regarding invulns, lol. At this point I wouldn't be against them just replacing invulns to add more unique factors to each tank kit—but I say that as a DRK player, we kind of have the least to lose in a scenario like that. Minus maybe the animation, would anyone really miss Living Dead? I know I sure wouldn't miss people telling me to use it when I did, only for them to end up letting me die whether or not I use a macro.

I feel like Superbolide, as funny as it is, shows they were kind of struggling what the hell they wanted to do when it came to a new tank invuln. I could be wrong, maybe it's also lore relevant and they had an idea in mind, but I still find it a bit worrying. I'd like to feel like I'm fighting for my life and the life of my party as a tank, and I don't really think invulns cut it in that regard.

I guess at the end of the day, I'll leave my thoughts on LD here. Dark Knights are given this in their description: "Their greatswords act as beacons to guide the meek through darkness." Even our symbol is basically the blade of a sword with a guiding star mimicking the handle, but we still need to rely on healers pissing themselves on an ability that should ease the burden. Give me a break!

[Lyth]

Let's make invulns PLD/GNB exclusive in order to make them unique!

This is an exceptionally bad idea. It's difficult to determine if you genuinely aren't aware of how powerful invulns are, or if you believe that the rest of the forums isn't clued in to it. At bare minimum you would make this tank combination mandatory for progression, if not in most content.

I think that if you want to limit the impact of invulns, then you need to address the issue universally, rather than by giving special privileges to certain tanks.

[DaulBan]

This is an exceptionally bad idea. It's difficult to determine if you genuinely aren't aware of how powerful invulns are

I'm not talking about the game as it is now, I was speaking in the limited sense of if the game was designed that way. Like if you had HW PLD and ShB DRK, I don't think you could say that you'd genuinely prefer to have HW PLD over ShB DRK every time (defensively) given that while the former has HG the latter has better tools to handle everything else that happens within seven minutes. If and only If there's actually enough outgoing damage going out that the difference in mitigation would be noticeable (like Godka or something like that). Given that right now most invulns exist strictly as convenience tools, and most healers have tools to spare, I sorta doubt that it would be that big of a deal even if healer design remained the exact same.

[WhyAmIHere]

I'm not talking about the game as it is now, I was speaking in the limited sense of if the game was designed that way. Like if you had HW PLD and ShB DRK, I don't think you could say that you'd genuinely prefer to have HW PLD over ShB DRK every time (defensively) given that while the former has HG the latter has better tools to handle everything else that happens within seven minutes. If and only If there's actually enough outgoing damage going out that the difference in mitigation would be noticeable (like Godka or something like that). Given that right now most invulns exist strictly as convenience tools, and most healers have tools to spare, I sorta doubt that it would be that big of a deal even if healer design remained the exact same.

...except HW PLD couldn't block magic, and ShB DRK has had much taken away from its kit, where if the inverse were to be true HW DRK would have the complexity and resource management myself and others want, and ShB PLD has all the kinks in it's kit ironed out save for the botched nerf that is ShB Cover.

Besides from your own merit... PLD/GNB do have true invulnerabilties, whereas WAR/DRK have death immunities. Like, that's literally how their "invulns" operate.

[DaulBan]

...except HW PLD couldn't block magic, and ShB DRK has had much taken away from its kit, where if the inverse were to be true HW DRK would have the complexity and resource management myself and others want, and ShB PLD has all the kinks in it's kit ironed out save for the botched nerf that is ShB Cover.

Like if you had HW PLD and ShB DRK, I don't think you could say that you'd genuinely prefer to have HW PLD over ShB DRK every time (defensively)

I'm not talking about anything regarding the rest of class balance. I'm just talking about defensive suite.

Edit: and to be clear: I did not say in my post anywhere that they SHOULD make invulns exclusive to any subset of jobs. I said it *could* be interesting if it *did* work, not that they *should* because it *would* .

[Vyrerus]

I remember back in 2.0 when PLD had all of the mitigation and the invuln and a DPS stance and WAR had... Featherfoot. If we were to take an invuln/immunity from even one tank, then we'd need to take them from everything.

[ItMe]

I remember back in 2.0 when PLD had all of the mitigation and the invuln and a DPS stance and WAR had... Featherfoot. If we were to take an invuln/immunity from even one tank, then we'd need to take them from everything.

Yeah, but that was back in 2.0 where you could use skills from classes on each other. PLD wasn't the class that had those tools, it was the class that unlocked those tools.

[Lyth]

Nothing like cross-class Savage Blade.

I want to see a limitation placed on the total number of times your team can use invulns per fight, shared across both tanks. Similar shared limits could be placed on rezzes, Monster Hunter style. You could fairly easily scale the difficulty of content up or down by adjusting these limits (i.e. no limits in story mode, fewer casts in harder difficulty settings).

If you had that, you wouldn't need to make up any convoluted drawbacks on invulns to keep them in check.

Edit: I was only *kind of* merely *suggesting*, hypothetically, as a thought experiment, that we *could* make PLD mandatory, I doubt it would be that big of a deal, and to be clear

Additional Effect: Backpedal 25 yalms.

[DaulBan]

Additional Effect: Backpedal 25 yalms.

I agree that removing Invulns probably isn't a bad idea.

That said, I think it could be used reasonably to distinguish different tanks. Like if GBR and PLD had them, while DRK and WAR didn't (excepting current tank balance) that might be reasonable if the former have weaker on-demand mitigation and the latter has much better on-demand mitigation. If your argument is that DRK has the best personal shield and WAR has the best personal healing, whereas PLD or GBR didn't (for whatever reason) it can be sensible.

I dunno man, you're the one putting words in my mouth when you didn't even read what I wrote.

[WhyAmIHere]

I dunno man, you're the one putting words in my mouth when you didn't even read what I wrote.

Or, you said one thing, meant another, and aren't admitting fault when called out for it?
because as written you kinda described the situation at hand we have now. WAR/DRK have immunities, and stronger short-cast defensives, while PLD/GNB have invulnerabilities, and weaker short-cast defensives.

The problem is DRK *does* have the best personal shielding. WAR *does* have the best personal healing. PLD *does* have the strongest invuln. GNB *does* have awful self-healing via Aurora, and IMO Brutal Shell's heal is garbage.