Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Allegor]

I think we're applying human standards to a race that isn't human. The idea of what's considered masculine and feminine is different when it comes to the viera. It's not that the male viera are feminine, it's that the males and females look similar, therefore making them androgynous. I guess with this logic, the female viera would too be considered androgynous within their own race because they look similar to the males. Obviously to us players, the female viera are clearly feminine supermodels, but it may not be viewed that way in the game's story. I hope I'm making sense.

That was my point though, female Viera are clearly not androgynous, so male Viera would have to intentionally make themselves look feminine to even be confused with one past puberty, and that's only assuming they even have beauty standards. [just in case my wording is hot garbage, I'm not saying males should be more masculine or anything, just that the "they look like each other" doesn't hold water when females are very clearly females, so it's the males that get the short end of the stick in that context.]

Also yes, it's hard to not make real life association when the way they're designed doesn't go far off real life conventional beauty either - female Viera don't only look feminine, they look hot, male gaze power fantasy feminine, even when in the game's universe not all of them may look like that.

my lizard brain read that as Bitchounen.

But how do they look bishounen? They just look like twinks to me-- Unless bishounen is a type of twink.

Twink is basically how the west describes bishounen, they're not exactly the same word because 'twink' has its roots in gay guys, but uhhh... "aesthetically" they're pretty much the same

[Itsgigglez]

I just did a quick search on google, but bishounen is "a young man of androgynous beauty" which I think fits well.
I've seen many people describe male viera as twink, but I'm honestly not sure what that means. Can you explain for me?

I've had it explained to me that Twinks are young men between 18-25 who look young? Like the best way I could describe someone as that word is Ezreal from LoL

[Coletergeist]

I suggest you ask for a trans male option for all races; those of us who are not trans want to play what looks like us. I don't like the idea that people are trying to jump on ONE specific race to turn them into an lgbt race. That leaves out those of us who are not lgbt.

Since when did I say I wanted the viera race to be strictly LGBT?

You're separating transgender people from cisgender, that's your issue here and what myself and others are trying to say. I have no issue with what is currently presented for male viera, or any other race in-game currently fyi. You're not reading in between the lines, which is fine dude. lmao? Good try though.

Viera are also not humans. Anatomy for them is literally going to be different, whether it's more leaning towards "stereotype" or not for what is considered "normal" to you. Try reading up on the lore for the race.

[Juzjuzz]

Tbh for the hips thing, it's really not that strong. Skinny guys can get that houglass shape, it's not unatural or rare. Ofc it depends on how large your skeletton build is but without enough mass the bones will be visible.

I don't think the design was done for representation or anything, it just looks good for some ppl that's it. That's why male viera might not please thoose who wanted to be small and cute if SE goes for tall males or same size as females. Same for thoose who wanted stronger/tougth looking males (and the boyish haircuts makes it worse, females have very womanly options lol).

[Senn]

That was my point though, female Viera are clearly not androgynous, so male Viera would have to intentionally make themselves look feminine to even be confused with one past puberty, and that's only assuming they even have beauty standards. [just in case my wording is hot garbage, I'm not saying males should be more masculine or anything, just that the "they look like each other" doesn't hold water when females are very clearly females, so it's the males that get the short end of the stick in that context.]

Also yes, it's hard to not make real life association when the way they're designed doesn't go far off real life conventional beauty either - female Viera don't only look feminine, they look hot, male gaze power fantasy feminine, even when in the game's universe not all of them may look like that.

So I just want to say that female viera clearly look like women. When I look at a female viera, I see a woman, plain and simple.

However, talking about this in terms of the ingame universe and lore: the female viera could be considered androgynous within their own race/species since they look similar to the males and vice versa. Not entirely so, there are some differences. But those differences aren't as big as some of the other races in the game (not including lalafell). I'm just strictly talking about the point of view inside the ffxiv world itself, not real life. And I don't think the male viera got the short end of the stick, they are just born that way. That's their baseline. Just to reiterate, they don't look feminine, they look like male viera. This is just what they happen to look like. Our human standards of femininity and masculinity probably don't apply to them.

Edit:

Twink is basically how the west describes bishounen, they're not exactly the same word because 'twink' has its roots in gay guys, but uhhh... "aesthetically" they're pretty much the same

Oh... good to know loool I don't know where this whole LGBT thing is coming from.

I've had it explained to me that Twinks are young men between 18-25 who look young? Like the best way I could describe someone as that word is Ezreal from LoL

I see, got it.

Thanks for explaining guys.

[Amnmaat]

Incorrect.
They don't care about male/female when they're young, once puberty hits they do. It's even more pronounced by the lore where females keep strictly female roles in the village and males are taken to fulfill strictly male roles in the wild.

[Senn]

I'd like to leave a tidbit of the Q&A from Matsuno here.

Q: What about their gender identity? Do they not have that on their mind while growing up?
A: They do not think about it until puberty starts

Q: So are they just accepting it after puberty? It sounds scary to me that once they are old enough, they are suddenly being told "You're Male, you have to leave the village now"
A: For us a big influence while growing up is our environment, "As a girl/boy this is what you have to do and how you have to behave". In that sense, Viera aren't raised like that. Their approach to education and raising keeps this in mind. The surrounding environment is different to our present age.

Link

All I can say is that their lore is pretty interesting to me and I'd like to learn more about it.

[Coletergeist]

Incorrect.
They don't care about male/female when they're young, once puberty hits they do. It's even more pronounced by the lore where females keep strictly female roles in the village and males are taken to fulfill strictly male roles in the wild.

It also states that not much changes in most features, like the face and body really. Other things, sure, but the whole androgynous debate is silly - because they will remain mostly androgynous; like faces for example, and their figure.

Don't conflate?

And they only do because roles they play in their race, but that has little to do with their actual appearances. I mean, we're talking about appearances, right? I wasn't exactly on the topic of roles they play.

[Amnmaat]

It also states that not much changes in most features, like the face and body really. Other things, sure, but the whole androgynous debate is silly - because they will remain mostly androgynous; like faces for example, and their figure.

Don't conflate?

And they only do because roles they play in their race, but that has little to do with their actual appearances. I mean, we're talking about appearances, right? I wasn't exactly on the topic of roles they play.

Roles are determined by the physical body; and it's how they determine who goes into the wild to protect the jungle/forest, and who stays home in the village.
It doesn't say what you stated

It says that until puberty they don't change, which mirrors real life, for the most part. Even male and female Au ri children don't look different at all unless you really look at their eyes.

The male and female Viera we're choosing are not children nor teenagers, they're grown adults.

[Iscah]

i think they‘d make a good pair:

That height balance looks right to me, proportion-wise. If anything the man is still scaled bigger looking at things like the size of the feet, but overall they look like they're at the same scale.

Also, whatever height they end up relative to each other, the women are cheating because they have high heels.

I'm glad someone else made the connection. I remember someone once said that male au ra were the image of eastern beauty standards, but I kept thinking.. really?

Male viera hit that mark of soft, pretty, and young.

It depends on the face and what you do with it, but some of the Auri faces definitely have that softer look to them as well. The scales change the look of it as well.

As I mentioned earlier, Aymeric seems to be based off one of the Auri faces and he definitely fits that Eastern standard.

That was my point though, female Viera are clearly not androgynous, so male Viera would have to intentionally make themselves look feminine to even be confused with one past puberty, and that's only assuming they even have beauty standards.

Females are clearly feminine, males are ambiguous to other races in ways that would make them able to pass for women if they wanted to or if the viewer makes assumptions based on their own race's standards rather than understanding Viera's.

You could even speculate that it's why Viera dress does emphasise their female-ness so it's clearer to them.

Twink is basically how the west describes bishounen, they're not exactly the same word because 'twink' has its roots in gay guys, but uhhh... "aesthetically" they're pretty much the same

It's not a term that I use, but I got the impression that twink is more "young and girlish-looking" (as it gets thrown at Miqo'te) and bishounen is more "beautiful and elegant" (like the nicer end of Elezen).

It says that until puberty they don't change, which mirrors real life, for the most part. Even male and female Au ri children don't look different at all unless you really look at their eyes.

Other parts of that interview indicate that you can't tell them apart even when naked, so it's not just a matter of normal puberty changes. They literally don't know what they are or which role they're going to have to take up until they get there.

Though "don't know what they are" probably implies more confusion that they would have over it. They're kits. That's what they are until they reach the age where they become men or women.