Summoner 6.0 Rework (my reimagining)

[ItMe]

For one, sure it has to be its own thing, but SMN's STORY evokes the concept of summoners from other games. And in a way, not only is SMN bad at reflecting the job over FF games, but its bad at representing what being a summoner would be like in Eorzea.

Perhaps. I refrained from commenting on if it was doing it well. Just what I felt it was trying to do.

The job quests don't talk about your powerful ruin and biomancy magic,

Yeah, that's kinda weird. Though the PLD job quests (for example) don't really mention their magic. So there is precedent for the job quests not trying to weave every core move we have into the job's story.

and the Summoner NPCs you face down aren't tossing little tiny chicken nugget rock formations at you while most of the damage comes from them. Even in this universe, Egis are meant to be powerful primal slaying tools that reflect a fraction of the primal's power the summoner is able to wield. It isn't like its a critical part of the lore that the egi is lame or unimpressive, its actually sorta the opposite, they are meant to be powerful and intimidating but the SMN just... gets a pile of chicken nuggets.

I dunno man, I mean, it's kind of like the NIN job quests. Many of the ninjas we fight are similar to us, but they all have unique things that come from learning their art differently and using it for different things.
For SMN, some of our opponents summon many things at once (like the allegan opponent from the level 70 quest).
Some of them summon cool supercharged egi.
The WoL, for better or worse, has been focusing on trances.

Furthermore, arguing that the job having a bad 'feel' is intentional is silly.

You're right. It would be silly to sabotage a job like that. And I never argued they made it intentionally bad.
If I wasn't clear somewhere that lead to such a misreading of my post please point it out to me so I can correct it.

It is super clear that pets overall are a badly dated legacy mechanic that the devs... don't... like? It isn't on purpose that the egi's abilities feel limp and the job is 'really' about your ruin spells: that is WHY they have been reworking them and trying to get them into a better space. Part of the very pitch of SHB's summoner rework was, in fact, a boldfaced admittance that they aren't where they should be in terms of gamefeel, its why they said 'we want to make you ACTUALLY feel like a summoner.'

Yeah. While trying to make FF14's version of a summoner they're struggling mightily.

And I don't think the devs agree with that sentiment either, its why MCH got such a substantial rework into a new job: They were very aware MCH didn't feel good or really like the characters who inspired it, so even though it isn't fully Edgar it more resembles him than the non-thematic mush the job used to be. Job fantasy is absurdly important to the devs and they talk about it a lot.

I don't know who Edgar is, but when I picked MCH up in Shadow Bringers I felt it did a pretty good job feeling like something that could emerge from the MCH guild.
Like a FF14 version of a machinist.
But that's neither here nor there.

If the job is failing to deliver what it is 'promising' its a failure regardless of it was intended or not, and I think it is super fair to say that even in the context of the XIV story Summoner does a cruddy job at reflecting what it 'should' be.

Perhaps it is failing.
Perhaps it isn't where it should be.
Those are not things I was commenting on as I felt it was tangential to my point.




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You seem to be exaggerating the idea of "evoking

Nah, I think I'm just being misunderstood.
Case in point, the next thing I quote is you trying to argue against me by using my own argument as if it's not what I'm trying to talk about:

The idea that they aren't evoking the classic classes is poppycock. They are absolutely putting their own spin on things, naturally, both in terms of mechanics and lore, but that's the bones they're putting the summoner wrapping around. Every FF has it's own take on the different classes, and Summoner is probably the least consistent of the core classes.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M ABOUT~
FF14's SMN is not 100% new and unique to it, but the FF14 version of summoner is at the core of SMN.
The bones of SMN are FF14's spin on summoner (with the traditional job identity wrapped around that), not a "traditional summoner" with FF14 sprinkled on top.