Final Fantasy XIV University

[WhyAmIHere]

There is more to it, as FFlogs doesn't look at circumstances. For example, let's say Team A clears the complete tier on day two, with an average time of 5 hours per stage, netting it at 20 hours game time. Now Team B also starts blind, but two days later and also only playing the game 4 hours a day. On day seven, just before reset, they also clear the tier, but with an average time of 4,5 hours per stage, netting it at 18 hours game time. Which is the better team? FFlogs will tell you Team A, but is it really?

Second example: Two Ninjas are playing the tier for 8 weeks straight. Ninja A get 8 clears in, once a week. They doesn't practice in between. Ninja B clears the content over and over until they can basically do it in their sleep. On week 8, after the 30th kill of each boss, Ninja B beat the DPS of Ninja A - who had only 8 kills of each boss. On his 35th kill Ninja B even places themself on top of the list. Who is the better player? FFlogs will say Ninja B - but are they really, if they need way more practice and tries?

your second point isn't really all that good of an example. It's a false equivalency for starters, but you invalidate your own argument at the end.
"Ninja B practices more and learns the fight more thoroughly and gets the timing for everyone down pat. Ninja A just one-and-done's the fight. Ninja B is implied to be worse because he "needs" more attempts."
Like... define "needs" in this context.
Needs, in that "needs to perform better than the other ninja" ...which he winds up doing? Or needs, in that "Ninja B is just struggling and has to figure things out?" Which the latter is null since... fight's been cleared.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

No, I mean it as in Ninja A learns faster and does great DPS in all of his 8 clears, while Ninja B needs over 30 clears until he is even able to perform on the same level. And then 5 more to top it. At the end, Ninja B has the higher score, but it is to assume hat Ninja A would beat that score without problems if they had invested as much time and done the content as often as Ninja B.

[It's basically the equivalent you often find in sports of talent (A) vs. hard work (B). B will never beat A if they put in the same work, the only chance B has is to work harder and hope for A to slack off]

[MPK]

No, I mean it as in Ninja A learns faster and does great DPS in all of his 8 clears, while Ninja B needs over 30 clears until he is even able to perform on the same level. And then 5 more to top it. At the end, Ninja B has the higher score, but it is to assume hat Ninja A would beat that score without problems if they had invested as much time and done the content as often as Ninja B.

[It's basically the equivalent you often find in sports of talent (A) vs. hard work (B). B will never beat A if they put in the same work, the only chance B has is to work harder and hope for A to slack off]

Only thing that matters is the number at the end since it's the only thing we can measure. Circumstances are completely irrelevant

Plus week 8 and week 1 is completely different. Strats are not optimized yet, gear is completely different, etc.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

Only thing that matters is the number at the end since it's the only thing we can measure. Circumstances are completely irrelevant

Yes. That's the point.

Plus week 8 and week 1 is completely different. Strats are not optimized yet, gear is completely different, etc.

Yes, that's why I made sure that all my examples were always in the same week.

[WhyAmIHere]

Yes. That's the point.


Yes, that's why I made sure that all my examples were always in the same week.

so then it is 100% irrelevant how long it took to get there. Whether it took one person 5 weeks, or it took them 35 weeks, or any number of weeks, to achieve the same or higher than someone else, is irrelevant because end of the day someone is ahead of someone else.

We're all different, learn at different rates / in different ways, and have myriad circumstances and variables that all culminate in who each person is at any given moment. Hence, the false equivalency logical fallacy.

[SenorPatty]

FF14 Forums, the final frontier where people just can't help but derail a topic with parser/fflogs topic. /Smh

Anyways, onto the University, I like the idea and what it entails. Good stuff.

EDIT: Where is the college of Namazu?

[Izanagi_Fiaresu]

FF14 Forums, the final frontier where people just can't help but derail a topic with parser/fflogs topic. /Smh

Anyways, onto the University, I like the idea and what it entails. Good stuff.

EDIT: Where is the college of Namazu?

I don't trust them *Side glance*

[Pepsi_Plunge]

so then it is 100% irrelevant how long it took to get there. Whether it took one person 5 weeks, or it took them 35 weeks, or any number of weeks, to achieve the same or higher than someone else, is irrelevant because end of the day someone is ahead of someone else.

We're all different, learn at different rates / in different ways, and have myriad circumstances and variables that all culminate in who each person is at any given moment. Hence, the false equivalency logical fallacy.

You are still missing the point. Ninja A is clearly the better player when it comes to learning the content and performing on a high level. They outperformed Ninja B on all 8 weeks with better numbers in less tries. B could only catch up with A once A stopped playing. In the end B only had a higher score because A stopped competing and FFlogs would put B on #1, but everyone, even B, would usually agree that A is still the better Ninja, even if Ninja B has the log with the highest DPS score.

Or let me ask you differently:
Who would you prefere in your raid group: Ninja A who learns fast and performs on a high level with only minimum mistakes and helps you clear the content as fast as they could - or Ninja B with whom you will need thrice as long with, but has a better FFlog in the end?

[Nethereal]

You are still missing the point. Ninja A is clearly the better player when it comes to learning the content and performing on a high level. They outperformed Ninja B on all 8 weeks with better numbers in less tries. B could only catch up with A once A stopped playing. In the end B only had a higher score because A stopped competing and FFlogs would put B on #1, but everyone, even B, would usually agree that A is still the better player.

Or let me ask you differently:
Who would you prefere in your raid group: Ninja A who learns fast and performs on a high level with only minimum mistakes and helps you clear the content as fast as they could - or Ninja B with whom you will need thrice as long with, but has better FFlogs in the end?

I'm not sure I see your point, the last man standing wins.
The most important thing to achieve your dream is never quit.
The fact ninja A quit is all that matters, even if ninja A came back they wouldn't be better than ninja b because the only thing ninja a had over ninja b was learning speed.
So while many would take ninja a over ninja b because they're not interested in taking a long time to get good at something or willing to take extra time to help someone ninja b still became better than ninja a.
The issue here is that you don't seem to understand the time limit is arbitrary the fact ninja a quit isn't a fault on ninja b in fact it's the opposite, if ninja a quit before ninja b then regardless of how long you span the time ninja a was always going to quit before ninja b and lose to ninja b eventually.

ninja b would also agree that ninja a is a good player but they're better now at said fight.

This is very much a parse mentality vs a clear mentality as far as I can tell, parse mentality will eventually get you better numbers, at a cost.

[Equitable_Remedy]

It is a brand new concept

It's like some sort of network...

... for novice players.