Relo mechanics are Cancer

[MilkieTea]

Relocation (as it currently stands now) causes problems, and we're going to see that with the Ishgardian housing not from the initial wave of houses being open, but from the second wave where people relo into Ishgard. That's also going to be the same thing we'll see to a lesser extent with the Oceanic servers opening, as both the second wave of housing from Ishgard's relos and the Oceanic server transfers are going to put a whole bunch of properties up for sale in the other wards - and those properties are going to give relos an advantage whereas the first time buyers are going to get screwed over again like what we saw with the recent re-enabling of the demolish timer.

Following from all of this, SE should add some mechanic that puts the relos and first time buyers on equal footing, not give an advantage to the relos. IMO if SE can come up with a mechanic (be it a raffle, house auction, or something else) that allows for the house to be assigned fairly and have a window that people can sign up to have a chance at getting the house (whether it's through RNG or whoever horks up the most gil) and the mechanic is done in such a way that it makes a transfer of a house from one party to another extremely unlikely (which would completely halt house flipping), that means we have a realistic chance of getting rid of the infernal timer as there will be a better solution in place.

The point then, is acknowledging the problem exists, and once it is acknowledged, coming up with a solution so that SE can work with it.

Would you, say, happen to agree with putting relos on a timer? a different timer to the regular house one (to avoid relo flipping, which is a big thing and probably where a majority of relocation "snipping" is coming from. They're not snipping, they probably bought it for 200mil to get the person to relinquish.) As it is, the timer exists to prevent house flipping. I don't agree with getting rid of it.

[Almagnus1]

Sorry, I guess my argument confused you, since you just posted a block of spam instead of a response. Can I clarify any points for you, or are you finished with this thread?

I'm not, but you clearly are.

[Almagnus1]

Would you, say, happen to agree with putting relos on a timer? a different timer to the regular house one (to avoid relo flipping, which is a big thing and probably where a majority of relocation "snipping" is coming from. They're not snipping, they probably bought it for 200mil to get the person to relinquish.) As it is, the timer exists to prevent house flipping. I don't agree with getting rid of it.

It's a start, but that in and of itself isn't going to cut down on people wasting time at placards only to have the house get snatched out from under them by a relo.

[LaylaTsarra]

If that's all you got from the post... you completely missed the point XD

I got it. I got you too. You aren't the director or the dev team and your suggestions overall are pretty bad. Seems you spend most of your time arguing with most people now why is that exactly if your suggested fixes are so good? Your OP didn't even get one like as of the timing of this post.

[B]Your suggestions all center around taking earned advantages and QoL features away, damaging the gaming experience for everyone.

You noticed.

The timer is okay. It's the length of the timer that needs to be adjusted. A timer that only runs 2-4 hours would accomplish the same thing the current timer does

I totally agree that the length of the timer is ridiculous. I personally lean more toward the 2 hour mark than 4 but that's me. I do think there will be some adjustments to relocations at least it sounded that way to me given they are looking at it. I'd be very surprised to see them remove it as a feature.

Relocations are one of the better features that came with the new rules. I personally think that relocations on ward additions should have no timer for the house left behind that might at least remove some of the stigma associated with those relocations at least on patch day and not subject those relocated houses to timer purchase. They also need a significant cooldown relative to when another relocation can take place.

[Almagnus1]

I got it. I got you too. You aren't the director or the dev team and your suggestions overall are pretty bad.

Why don't you do us both a favor and save some time and link this image: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...63/547/bc1.png

Seems you spend most of your time arguing with most people now why is that exactly if your suggested fixes are so good?

If everyone agrees with something, no one will post a response to it - so being a bit disagreeable can spark a conversation... especially when we have posters like you and Catstab that keep giving me free PR, so I thank you for your support =D

Your OP didn't even get one like as of the timing of this post.

What if that was intentional?

I totally agree that the length of the timer is ridiculous. I personally lean more toward the 2 hour mark than 4 but that's me. I do think there will be some adjustments to relocations at least it sounded that way to me given they are looking at it. I'd be very surprised to see them remove it as a feature.

Only way I can see them touching the timer at this point (which is also likely the length) is if there's another system to assign the house in place. That's why I'd like to see something like a raffle or auction in place, as that completely negates the need for a timer, yet makes it fair for someone else to get the house while also making it impossible to do a transfer from one house to another and hoses the house flippers.

Relocations are one of the better features that came with the new rules. I personally think that relocations on ward additions should have no timer for the house left behind that might at least remove some of the stigma associated with those relocations at least on patch day and not subject those relocated houses to timer purchase. They also need a significant cooldown relative to when another relocation can take place.

Relocations, in and of themselves aren't the problem. It's when the relo bypasses the rebuild timer and allows someone to snatch up another property creating haves and have nots within the system. The latter needs to stop.

[Catstab]

Relocation (as it currently stands now) causes problems

The timer causes problems. Relocation is one tiny bit of relief to the giant problem that is the timer. Suggesting it's removal is seeking to make the game objectively worse.

<mass relocation means a> bunch of properties up for sale in the other wards - and those properties are going to give relos an advantage.

Working as intended. First time buyers are supposed to take the unwanted plots. Campers job is 'get anything' and relocators job is 'go where you want to be'

The relocation system is there to help people find their dream plots without ever having to negotiate the timer for a second time. It also allows relocators to claim a house and get right out of campers way immediately. You'd instead have relocators fight campers for 20 hours at the placard? And then the campers lose and it's the same situation we had, expect we wasted 40 man-hours of paying customer's time first. It's objectively making the game worse.

something else) that allows for the house to be assigned fairly

So right now, we have this great system wherein the first person to see an open plot who has also paid their dues by camping may claim that open plot as desired. So someone diligent and driven is rewarded with the house.

Your suggestion is that if someone else shows up an hour or three after it spawned and has never put any effort into housing before today, not only should our first player to arrive still be waiting for their reward rather than enjoying it, but these two players should be equal in their chances at a reward, despite one putting in more effort and therefore arguably having more desire.

Sure, and while we're at it, let's make the 430 weapons hit as hard as the 530 weapons. After all, you wouldn't want to give players any advantage for the time and effort they put in.

Removing elements that reward players who put effort into the game will always result in a reduction of the game's quality. Again, objectively making the game worse.

The point then, is acknowledging the problem exists, and once it is acknowledged, coming up with a solution so that SE can work with it.

Problem: The random timer damages play experiences for all first time buyers (you are requesting this feature is expanded to damage all play experiences for all players )

Solutions:
Higher prices.
More servers.
More wards.
More housing zones.

All of this is in the works, except higher pricing. The problem is going to stay bad, as long as the gil you get for following the MSQ is enough to buy a house.

Add gil sinks (gameplay gil sinks, not mounts), or buff house pricing to where it's actually a vanity feature rather than something 95% of players can afford and only 25% of players can be accommodated by.

[Almagnus1]

The timer causes problems. Relocation is one tiny bit of relief to the giant problem that is the timer. Suggesting it's removal is seeking to make the game objectively worse.

Keep fighting those windmills Don Quixote, especially those windmills that are telling you that I am seriously asking for the removal of the housing timer.

So right now, we have this great system wherein the first person to see an open plot who has also paid their dues by camping may claim that open plot as desired. So someone diligent and driven is rewarded with the house.

I wouldn't call a system that forces you to camp a plot of land for at least 10 hours as "great". Accidentally malicious is a better description.

Your suggestion is that if someone else shows up an hour or three after it spawned and has never put any effort into housing before today, not only should our first player to arrive still be waiting for their reward rather than enjoying it, but these two players should be equal in their chances at a reward, despite one putting in more effort and therefore arguably having more desire.

Please link the post from the last month where I have suggested that a raffle (or auction) time should be longer than an hour.

Again, you're fighting windmills Don Quixote.

Sure, and while we're at it, let's make the 430 weapons hit as hard as the 530 weapons. After all, you wouldn't want to give players any advantage for the time and effort they put in.

Stop comparing an overhyped vanity system with a game system that actually rewards hard work. The two are wholly incomparable.

Problem: The random timer damages play experiences for all first time buyers (you are requesting this feature is expanded to damage all play experiences for all players )

Solutions:
Higher prices.
More servers.
More wards.
More housing zones.

It is said that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing and expecting a different result. Why are you suggesting an utterly insane solution to the problem?

[Catstab]

Keep fighting those windmills Don Quixote, especially those windmills that are telling you that I am seriously asking for the removal of the housing timer.

Look, Wishbone was a great show, but you can stop referencing your favorite episode every other post.

And I didn't say you were asking for the removal of the housing timer. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, I guess. I said that the housing timer is bad, and relocation is it's one saving grace, and asking for removal of the saving grace (relocation) is making the game objectively worse.

I wouldn't call a system that forces you to camp a plot of land for at least 10 hours as "great". Accidentally malicious is a better description.

Again, yes, you are right. The timer is bad, because it forces you to camp 10 hours. Relocation is good, because you can skip those ten hours! Hooray relocation.

It is said that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing and expecting a different result. Why are you suggesting an utterly insane solution to the problem?

The result has always been "more people get houses." SE makes wards, and people get houses. SE makes worlds, people get houses. SE makes new zones, people get houses. See a pattern, here? Just because a solution does not induce perfection does not mean it doesn't work.

Moreover, ARR pricing in the modern era obviously hasn't been tried. So clearly it doesn't stand among all the (working) solutions you're attacking.

[Jojoya]

Moreover, ARR pricing in the modern era obviously hasn't been tried. So clearly it doesn't stand among all the (working) solutions you're attacking.

ARR pricing was intended to bleed servers of the excessive gil accumulated by legacy players, not create housing exclusivity and lower demand.

Who has that sort of gil now? The players who have been playing for several years and likely already have houses. Those who want multiple houses will still be able to buy more houses with their alts on other worlds using the MBs to move gil around, or buy them with alts on the same world using shell FCs.

40 million gil may not seem like a lot to you or me. We can buy multiple houses with the gil we already have.

For newer players, it's a huge sum. They won't have the gil and thus be cut out of the market. They're also going to have a much harder time raising the gil trying to get into the market as the crafting changes this expansion (and related bot incursion to the marketboard) have severely cut into profit margins on the MB.

That makes it all that much easier for the players who already have houses to obtain more because they don't have to put in the effort. They already have the gil at hand and the competition for what's available has been removed due to the price increase.

Increasing price doesn't reduce actual demand. It just reduces who's capable of buying with gil earned through normal game play, building resentment and encouraging players desperate to own a house to resort to RMT.

[Catstab]

For newer players, it's a huge sum. They won't have the gil and thus be cut out of the market.

That's ...... that's entirely the point. Did you not read my post or something?

5k houses, 20k people.

They only way to work this out is:
A. Make 15,000 more houses
B. Make it so only 5,000 of your 20,000 qualify for housing.

So if housing costs 40 million gil, people with 3 million gil are out playing FF14 doing quests and dungeons and crafting and hunts and raids, not standing around the wards being mad at every other player who is doing the same. 40 million takes a couple months to earn even today, and that's if you're taking your sweet time about it.