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Hybrid-Darstellung

  1. #1
    Player
    Avatar von Deceptus
    Registriert seit
    Sep 2013
    Ort
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Beiträge
    4.418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Weiser Lv 90
    Zitat Zitat von Dzian Beitrag anzeigen
    Because there job is to heal. Not dps.
    If this is the mentality how are they supposed to finish the MSQ on healers?

    Can't kill mobs with healing.
    (37)
    Veteran healers don't care if we need to heal, but right now we don't. We want interesting things to do during the downtime other than a 30s dot and a single filler spell that hasn't changed from lvl 4 to lvl 90.
    Dead DPS do no DPS. Raised DPS do 25/50% lower DPS. Do the mechanics and don't stand in bad stuff.
    Other games expect basic competence, FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it. Other games have toxic elitism. FFXIV has toxic casualism.[/LIST]

  2. #2
    Player
    Avatar von BlueMageQuina
    Registriert seit
    May 2015
    Ort
    Gridania
    Beiträge
    96
    Character
    Daddy Curaga
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Astrologe Lv 100
    This question is a little complicated.. The truth is that it’s this way now for many reasons; it has been a reaction to player complaints, a result of unpopular design choices, a change from mechanics reworks, and a reduction to button bloat.

    For player complaints, for example, for a long while (ARR, HW, SB) healers kept complaining about the skill gap especially since it justifies leaving players out of content they wanted to try. When healers had more DPS spells, good healers very obviously outclassed bad ones and bringing a good SCH was like bringing a 5th DPS. (Yes, the did DPS like a DPS.) Even so, reducing our damage output to 1 button has not extinguished the skill gap, which is still often very evident.

    For unpopular design choices, SE had had the notion for a while that “healers should only heal,” which only exacerbated the previous issue. Slowly our DPS and utility toolkits were nerfed and hallowed out into oblivion while the healers themselves have been homogenized. There was a time where only SCH had a bubble (Sacred Soil), but then WHM was given one (Asylum) and AST was given 2 (Collective, Star). But that still wasn’t enough. ShB made it so that now SCH’s bubble also regens like the other two healers. Sacred Soil is now the most overpowered healing cooldown for the sake of homogeneity. Likewise, WHM was often stripped of its own utility to be spread to other healers and roles: Cleric Stance was given away then deleted, Shroud of Saints became Lucid Dreaming, Esuna replaced AST and SCH’s unique status heals, etc. WHM even had a cooldown to increase its healing potency that was first given to other healers and renamed Largesse, and then split and renamed again for a second time to be unique to WHM and AST in the forms of Temperance and Neutral Sect.

    The utility we do/did have is continuously reworked; it is continuously removed, rebranded or repurposed onto other roles. To be fair, sometimes the rework is required. Old NIN is a good example. Tanking used to be a whole lot more difficult and unlike now, you couldn’t just turn on tank stance to hold the aggro. DPS and healers both used to pull aggro off the a tank who didn’t have a good aggro rotation. NIN solved this somewhat by being able to directly mitigate and empty party members’ aggro. NIN actually had a mechanic that was neat and unique to it. Then—of course—it’s utility was reduced by giving other DPS Diversion (aggro dump for DPS role) and tanks Ultimatum (AOE Provoke). Then, reworked again so that tank stance is enough so all aggro related abilities have been deleted from all jobs but tanks.

    Unlike NIN, for healers a rework of utility wasn’t comparatively required though it happened anyway. Old AST utility was that it buffed 6 unique aspects—every card wasn’t a damage up the way it is now—and AST could extend the duration of its own buffs, shields and regens through card buffs, Time Dilation, and Celestial Opposition (which incidentally used to have an AOE stun). This was taken away because of player complaints about the RNG aspect of fishing for the right card, and for the balance aspect that the other healers would never buff that way, especially WHM which was planned to never offer true comparable utility. But more to the point, AST and SCH both had mitigation tools that have been repurposed into other roles. AST’s Disable and SCH’s Eye for an Eye have both been deleted in place of giving DPS more responsibility: Troubadour, Shield Samba, Tactician, Feint and Addle.

    The little remaining utility was slowly weeded out too. WHM had a Heavy+40% with Stone 1, which became healer role Break, which became gone. Fluid Aura had a knockback and a damage potency, gone. Aero III, gone. Cleric Stance is gone so badly that people say “healers should only heal,” forgetting that the original design for one of the healers had a DPS stance that raised damage output and lowered healing output. SCH had a Shadowflare, Bane, Miasma II, Energy Drain, Rouse, an AOE haste, an AOE Esuna, and an AOE silence (interrupt). All gone, though Energy Drain returned because of MP issues. And we already spoke on AST.

    Lastly, the final reason we have nothing less to do as a healer, and don’t let this reason be overlooked: button bloat. We have too many buttons and the “less useful” utility and DPS buttons have been the first to go.

    All these things gone. All for balance. All for rework. All for button bloat. All because we complained.
    (36)
    Geändert von BlueMageQuina (29.05.21 um 22:33 Uhr)

  3. #3
    Player
    Avatar von Dalvy
    Registriert seit
    Feb 2014
    Ort
    Ul'dah
    Beiträge
    406
    Character
    Ysera Dei-ijla
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Thaumaturg Lv 71
    Zitat Zitat von BlueMageQuina Beitrag anzeigen
    This question is a little complicated.. The truth is that it’s this way now for many reasons; it has been a reaction to player complaints, a result of unpopular design choices, a change from mechanics reworks, and a reduction to button bloat.

    [..]
    This post is the sum of all of our complaints over these past seven years. . .

    WHM has been hit by the nerf bat so many times, had their unique healing skills taken away, given to other classes, that there was a period of time where nobody took them.

    SCH used to be "the DPS healer" only to be whittled down into a discount Glare spammer, minus our unique fairy skills, minus our ability to spread dots, and for the second time, this class is being threatened by another Shield healer.

    AST is a rollercoaster and a half, being nearly unplayable for a good chunk of SHB, besides the fact that Square took away the most unique support mechanic I've ever seen--their original card buff system

    What undue nerfs will we see happen to Sage, all in the name of their "healers need to heal" homogenization philosophy?
    (7)

  4. #4
    Player
    Avatar von Cidel
    Registriert seit
    Jun 2012
    Ort
    Bastok
    Beiträge
    1.476
    Character
    Cidel Paratonnerre
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Astrologe Lv 100
    Zitat Zitat von Recon1o6 Beitrag anzeigen
    consequently, the healer playerbase has plummeted, the skill of healers on average has plummeted, and very few people pick up the jobs to replace them and witht he lack of difficulty or challenge
    I have to wonder, are we playing the same game or do I just have (bad) luck? I see this assertion get thrown around here and there, and it seems like hyperbole. Oftentimes in current content, healers are everywhere. It is not uncommon to get invited into parties with 3+ healers out in Bozja, get matched with parties with 4+ healers in DR, and in the active weeks following a new EX trial's release, it can be an actual race to join a PF with a free healer spot... The only place I actively see people avoid healer like the plague is in PvP.
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player
    Avatar von Recon1o6
    Registriert seit
    Sep 2016
    Beiträge
    1.296
    Character
    Avarnia Corthal
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Zitat Zitat von Cidel Beitrag anzeigen
    I have to wonder, are we playing the same game or do I just have (bad) luck? I see this assertion get thrown around here and there, and it seems like hyperbole. Oftentimes in current content, healers are everywhere. It is not uncommon to get invited into parties with 3+ healers out in Bozja, get matched with parties with 4+ healers in DR, and in the active weeks following a new EX trial's release, it can be an actual race to join a PF with a free healer spot... The only place I actively see people avoid healer like the plague is in PvP.
    You seem to have luck, yesterday I was waiting for almost an hour for a healer for a diamond ex party. In addition multiple POTD runs i been suffering lately in the name of silver coffers turned up no healers. Finally we aren't long after a patch, numbers are always upticking in the first two weeks. Its in between patches where the lack of healers becomes a fundamental problem.

    Bozja is the place where there are most healers because of seraph strike, chainspell, burst and some other attack actions that are available that take away some of the monotony of a 1 button dps "rotation"
    in addition there is the super powerful lost death+repose+ordained wisdom combo thats exclusive to healers that is useful for 1 shotting * mobs
    (9)

  6. #6
    Player
    Avatar von Kabooa
    Registriert seit
    Sep 2013
    Beiträge
    4.391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldschmied Lv 100
    Zitat Zitat von Cidel Beitrag anzeigen
    I have to wonder, are we playing the same game or do I just have (bad) luck? I see this assertion get thrown around here and there, and it seems like hyperbole. Oftentimes in current content, healers are everywhere. It is not uncommon to get invited into parties with 3+ healers out in Bozja, get matched with parties with 4+ healers in DR, and in the active weeks following a new EX trial's release, it can be an actual race to join a PF with a free healer spot... The only place I actively see people avoid healer like the plague is in PvP.
    They're often baseless statements, but they sound good for trying to prove a point.

    People will play what is the most effective in given content. Bozja is a strange example, because due to the way healers are balanced, and how lost actions function and interact, they are among your highest DPS options with minimal lost action investment. Aetherweaver + Lost Seraph + Burst is an AoE option that is more powerful than Black Mage's single target, outside Delibrum Essence, Chain Spell, and Lost Font. Some of these actions are far easier to get than the others, and one job still has access to a full suite of a healing toolkit, and the other is still among the least able to support the party in the game.
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player
    Avatar von Allegor
    Registriert seit
    Sep 2018
    Beiträge
    2.056
    Character
    Red Rider
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Weiser Lv 90
    Zitat Zitat von Deceptus Beitrag anzeigen
    If this is the mentality how are they supposed to finish the MSQ on healers?

    Can't kill mobs with healing.
    You're not, apparently - they must be in the thought that no one in their right mind would play a healer outside dungeons and raids.

    Me: did the entirety of the MSQ, most side quests, Hildy, beast tribe quests, Eureka and Bozja as a WHM
    (1)
    Zitat Zitat von Allegor Beitrag anzeigen
    Can't increase healing requirements because "it'd stress the newbies"
    Can't increase dps options either because "it'd stress the newbies"
    so apparently the only option that doesn't "stress the newbies" is either pressing 1211111111, or do nothing at all.

  8. #8
    Player
    Avatar von Korbei
    Registriert seit
    Mar 2011
    Ort
    Gridania
    Beiträge
    218
    Character
    Korbei Korobei
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    The word "Healer" is a curious one, rooted in ambiguity.
    (0)