Parsers add replayability for casual players

[DPZ2]

Everything you cited remains against the ToS. Therefore, any player doing such should find themselves quickly banned if GMs do their jobs. I won't deny the initial month or so would be a "rough patch"... We also need to define "harassment". Some people take being told their damage is low or that due to said low damage they're being repped as harassment. Which it simply isn't.

So, because it's against the ToS, you are willing to subject a massive amount of players to abuse for a month (hah!) in order to get a parser ?

And then you qualify telling people about their 'low damage' as "It simply isn't [harassment]" ... Perhaps, in your eyes. Not in mine. Go ahead and "gently" abuse, and see how long the ToS permanent ban takes to come crashing down on you.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I mean, It's how you poke the subject (i.e. dealing low damage) -AND- how they receive it (I can't believe people often forget about latter!).

Also, gosh this thread...

[Awha]

So, because it's against the ToS, you are willing to subject a massive amount of players to abuse for a month (hah!) in order to get a parser ?

And then you qualify telling people about their 'low damage' as "It simply isn't [harassment]" ... Perhaps, in your eyes. Not in mine. Go ahead and "gently" abuse, and see how long the ToS permanent ban takes to come crashing down on you.

Should a factual statement be viewed as harassment?

[Rinhi]

Honestly some things are unforgivable but given we don't know what was said at best we can speculate.

The point is if a person can stop themselves from being rude then they should. Whether it's with a stranger or someone they know. We don't know why strangers aren't performing well so we shouldn't assume the worst about them and act upon it as if we do know why.

some things are unforgivable, yes, but nothing about their statement indicated that. instead, the 'friend' was named in the same vein as the guy they blacklisted and given the posters usually very binary way of posts and statements, I am very sure they would have specified it if it was something unforgivable and not just being insulted for whatever reason by their friends.
I agree with the rest of your post, but again I in no way implied that people should be rude to each other or that friends should willingly endure abuse by their 'friends'. I just think the way they talked about it showed how much they truly cared about their friend (they didn't) and that someone who breaks friendships that easily over a one-time time thing shouldn't talk about issues regarding communication at all /shrug

[Goji1639]

Should a factual statement be viewed as harassment?

Depends. What if I were to approach some woman in the mall and gently inform her that she's ugly? Factual or not it was completely unnecessary and probably a little embarrassing for her.

[Penthea]

some things are unforgivable, yes, but nothing about their statement indicated that. instead, the 'friend' was named in the same vein as the guy they blacklisted and given the posters usually very binary way of posts and statements, I am very sure they would have specified it if it was something unforgivable and not just being insulted for whatever reason by their friends.

Depending on what was said they may want to keep it private. We don't know what the rude comment was about and maybe it was about something very personal.

I agree with the rest of your post, but again I in no way implied that people should be rude to each other or that friends should willingly endure abuse by their 'friends'. I just think the way they talked about it showed how much they truly cared about their friend (they didn't) and that someone who breaks friendships that easily over a one-time time thing shouldn't talk about issues regarding communication at all /shrug

My apologies I did not mean to imply that you in any way agree with being rude. It was more of a general statement directed at the "fAcTs CaN'T bE rUdE" people.

Depends. What if I were to approach some woman in the mall and gently inform her that she's ugly? Factual or not it was completely unnecessary and probably a little embarrassing for her.

This ^ also how you state a fact can hugely impact how people are going to react to your statement. There is a big difference between "you suck at the game" and "you need to improve how you play".

[Haru304]

Parsers in WoW just caused stress for me because they were very much anticipated and somewhat mandated. I'm a casual player and I care about my performance, but I do not care about it to a point I need to know the exact numbers out in-front of me.

It gets to a point where you're rated purely on those numbers and nothing else. That's not the type of community I want to be in.

[Mikey_R]

Depends. What if I were to approach some woman in the mall and gently inform her that she's ugly? Factual or not it was completely unnecessary and probably a little embarrassing for her.

Technically, your example is a statement of opinion, not a statement of fact, a fact being something that is proven to be true. While YOU might find that person ugly, someone else might find them attractive.

Now, I have not kept up with every single post here, but however, to provide examples of where someone is factually underperforming, you can look at EX, Savage and Ultimate fights.

Each one of those fights are designed with a certain DPS requirement in mind for each job. If you do not meet that DPS requirement, you are underperforming in your role. Now SE might not publish the exact DPS requirements they use to tune fights, you can still get a good idea. That 1 DPS who is 10K below the others? they are not doing the expected damage, therefore, they are underperforming. Stating this will be a statement of fact. Of course, once things get closer together DPS wise between the players, the line between factually bad and performing adequately start to blur and unless some actual data from SE themselves is released, this line will always be there.

You can also make a case for dungeons, at least, the ShB dungeons and this metric comes from trusts. Trusts vary the damage they do so that dungeon runs take about 25-35 mins. You can say, if a dungeon takes longer than the trusts to complete, someone has not been doing enough damage, bear in mind, with an average group of players, Expert dungeons can be completed in about 15-20 mins, so getting over 30-35 mins means someone is doing really really bad.

[Awha]

Depends. What if I were to approach some woman in the mall and gently inform her that she's ugly? Factual or not it was completely unnecessary and probably a little embarrassing for her.

Ugly is not a factual statement. Though I have called people fat in public, like damn they are fat sometimes I think I am saying something in my head but I am actually saying it out loud.

Sure they may feel embarrassed and it may be unnecessary but if the statement is true and can be factually backed up then honestly the person in my eyes should not view it as harassment. They may dislike me as a person and take offense to the statement, but to categorize it as harassment seems weird cause telling people the truth should never been seen as harassment aren’t we all taught that being honest is the best policy. Yet when it comes to certain things are told to lie to spare the feelings of others. Seems weird to me.

Depending on what was said they may want to keep it private. We don't know what the rude comment was about and maybe it was about something very personal.



My apologies I did not mean to imply that you in any way agree with being rude. It was more of a general statement directed at the "fAcTs CaN'T bE rUdE" people.



This ^ also how you state a fact can hugely impact how people are going to react to your statement. There is a big difference between "you suck at the game" and "you need to improve how you play".

How someone stats a fact is moot, all that should matter is if the statement is factually correct. If someone is fat they are fat, if someone is doing less damage then a tank or healer as a dps and you have numbers to prove it they are objectively doing less damage. The reason why is kinda moot, sure it could be gear related or skill related but those factors does not change the factual statement regarding them doing less damage.

I am sorry I will always be of the mindsets facts cannot be viewed as harassment in themselves. You may dislike the person for stating the fact etc . . . But to say that it is harassment to call someone out for what they are seems extremely weird to me.

Do not get me wrong facts can be rude. Though being rude in itself is not harassment either.

[Goji1639]

Technically, your example is a statement of opinion, not a statement of fact, a fact being something that is proven to be true. While YOU might find that person ugly, someone else might find them attractive.

No reason to get bogged down in semantics. I could point out that someone's fat, poor, short, bald, etc. in front of other people and watch as they become uncomfortable and humiliated, but it's a petty thing to do.

Ugly is not a factual statement. Though I have called people fat in public, like damn they are fat sometimes I think I am saying something in my head but I am actually saying it out loud.

Sure they may feel embarrassed and it may be unnecessary but if the statement is true and can be factually backed up then honestly the person in my eyes should not view it as harassment. They may dislike me as a person and take offense to the statement, but to categorize it as harassment seems weird cause telling people the truth should never been seen as harassment aren’t we all taught that being honest is the best policy. Yet when it comes to certain things are told to lie to spare the feelings of others. Seems weird to me.

Being honest is certainly not always the best policy; that's just something adults say to children because they don't feel like explaining the nuances of social interaction to them.

When determining whether or not being honest is a good or bad idea you need to read the situation and apply a certain level of common sense to it. In your case honesty seems to mainly involve criticism of people. In many situations, however, criticism isn't necessary or useful; it just creates conflict. It's your job to recognize those situations, apply logic, and realize that it would be best for everyone if you kept your criticisms to yourself.