Parsers add replayability for casual players

[Kirajah]

I come from WoW, the number of times I see something on the lines of "LF (insert class here), 350k DPS minimum!" for something that only 250k could EASILY clear for is astronomical. It's on the same vein as ilvl 400 minimum for ilvl 350 content. Parsers breed elitism within the game's community.

[ZedxKayn]

I come from WoW, the number of times I see something on the lines of "LF (insert class here), 350k DPS minimum!" for something that only 250k could EASILY clear for is astronomical. It's on the same vein as ilvl 400 minimum for ilvl 350 content. Parsers breed elitism within the game's community.

And? Higher iLV/parses imply a lot of things, most importantly being that dangerous or annoying mechanics can be skipped, ie this tier, brambles 2, VG2, cycles...

[Liam_Harper]

I come from WoW, the number of times I see something on the lines of "LF (insert class here), 350k DPS minimum!" for something that only 250k could EASILY clear for is astronomical. It's on the same vein as ilvl 400 minimum for ilvl 350 content. Parsers breed elitism within the game's community.

Why is this elitist? I saw those groups all the time in WoW, but there were plenty of groups that weren't fussy or for learning. I had no problem raiding via PF in WoW and I wasn't a great player. In the same way in ff14, why is 400ilv requirement for 350 content elitist when there are abundant Practice and progression groups and you're free to make your own group? Decent players wanting to play with other decent players is perfectly normal. They already beat the content, they just want to farm and can play with whoever they like.

I see it more as entitlement. Players don't want to form their own Practice groups, they don't want to work hard to progress and earn that clear. They want into the good players group for a carry. And somehow the good player is the bad guy here.

Like a personal dps meter for example is a useless tool.

Why. Because while such a tool may indicate you are improving it cannot indicate where you are in terms of potential or where you should be..

To give an example. I use act mainly for curiosity and testing if this is better than that but I don't use it as a comparison tool because it doesn't work as such.

There are a couple of diamond weapon parses uploaded to fflogs for example that indicate my samurai is in the 39th percentile. But thats meaningless as well.

My samurai at that time was i513 with an I515 weapon.. this then doesn't mean 61% of samurai are better than me. Or anytbing like that. All it likely means is many of them have far better gear..

Take it a step further.

Open that 39th percentile log. Copy the link and pop it into xivanalysis.com. Now you have a fully indepth view of everything on that fight, your uptime, cooldown usage, rotational mistakes, resources lost and so on. Then check the top logs for Samurai on Diamond and copy one into xiva. Compare it with your own log. Now you have your current level and the potential if you mastered the class, along with every detail to improve on. You'll find meters can be very valuable to self-improvement.

[Dzian]

Take it a step further.

Open that 39th percentile log. Copy the link and pop it into xivanalysis.com. Now you have a fully indepth view of everything on that fight, your uptime, cooldown usage, rotational mistakes, resources lost and so on. Then check the top logs for Samurai on Diamond and copy one into xiva. Compare it with your own log. Now you have your current level and the potential if you mastered the class, along with every detail to improve on. You'll find meters can be very valuable to self-improvement.

Never heard of that site but the question is whats that "potential" based on?. making a comparison between a 513 sam and a 530 sam for example is pretty useless at best. this is where fflogs doesnt always paint an accurate picture...

what imean is for example one of the top samurais in diamond weapon is 23,269 dps. that number on its own doesnt equate to a whole lot. while i might assume hes full BIS samurai it still doesnt tell me anything usefull. my 39th percentile parse was like 21,116. so there's a 2k dps difference. but again that doesnt tell me very much. because i was i513 so there's obviously going to be a significant disparity but its unquantifiable exactly how much that disparity is or rather should be. (not to mention impact of party compositions or whatever.)

This is why i said any improvement tools should work potency more than damage. because its a much easier value to work with and comapre.. using potency per second for example i might find im right on the tail of that number 1 samurai "wishful thinking" and get a much better representation of my performance in a metric that eliminates the variable of gear.. and the less variable you have the more accurate and actually useable the information is.

measuring based on damage is largely useless as an improvement tool because there are no quantifiable ranges or measures because of the huge number of variables. a sam doing 15k dps for example means nothing if thats all the informantion you have. if hes doing 15k dps at i430 its a completely different result than doing 15k dps at i530. damage needs a reference in order to be comparable or accurate.

to reference the diamond run i mentioned for example. 21,116 dps. is that 70% of what i could potentially be doing at that ilevel
or 95% of what i could potentially be doing at that i level
thus the informantion is useless. its just a menaingless number without something to measure it aagainst or a point of reference

I could for example say Oh hey i'm giving you a 5 for that site you mentioned. is that 5/5? 5/10? 5/100? 5 on its own means nothing without a reference to measure it against. damage is the same.

which is why a self imrovement tool that worked of potency would be much more usefull. because shinten is 320 potency whether your itlevel is 430 or 530. so it becomes much easier to compare and is much more usefull then.

Edit. Checked xiv analysis but again that doesnt give you anything to measure against. though it point out a couple of rotational balls ups (something to consider at least) but it still doesnt give you a point of reference in terms of how you measure up against a potential.. so agian i could be doing 70% of my potential for my current ilevel or 95% you just don't know.

[Liam_Harper]

Edit. Checked xiv analysis but again that doesnt give you anything to measure against. though it point out a couple of rotational balls ups (something to consider at least) but it still doesnt give you a point of reference in terms of how you measure up against a potential.. so agian i could be doing 70% of my potential for my current ilevel or 95% you just don't know.

You measure it against a high parse. Compare your xiva to the xiva result for a top SAM. Remember xiva isn't about dps.

Let's say for example you had 85% uptime, missed 3 CD's and 4 rotational errors, but a 95+ percentile had 99% uptime, only missed 1 CD and no rotational errors, then you know you have room to improve and exactly what you need to work on. In particular Uptime is extremely important for dps.

However, if your xivanalysis result looked similar to the result of a 95%+ log, then you know it's purely a gear issue. For a 513 it sounds like you're doing decent.

The language used by pro-parsers in this thread is pretty much self-explanatory and self-evident. Calling people "clowns", "softies", "baddies" and the like for disagreeing, telling them to just "get over it" in regards to extreme verbal abuse (victim blaming much?).

Those few examples do not represent pro-parsers as a whole, but fair point, there's no need for name calling over disagreement on either side. It doesn't help anyone's case.

I trust some elite prick to understand

Speaking of name calling...

[Puremallace]

You measure it against a high parse. Compare your xiva to the xiva result for a top SAM. Remember xiva isn't about dps.

Let's say for example you had 85% uptime, missed 3 CD's and 4 rotational errors, but a 95+ percentile had 99% uptime, only missed 1 CD and no rotational errors, then you know you have room to improve and exactly what you need to work on. In particular Uptime is extremely important for dps.

However, if your xivanalysis result looked similar to the result of a 95%+ log, then you know it's purely a gear issue.

This is my issue with making parses in the game where casuals could see them. Do you think a casual that screws their rotation or has a gear issue could go this in depth to provide any useful info to a dev?

[StriderShinryu]

This is my issue with making parses in the game where casuals could see them. Do you think a casual that screws their rotation or has a gear issue could go this in depth to provide any useful info to a dev?

Yep, and this is why throwing numbers at a casual player isn't going to do anything positive. If they're a casual player, they're not going to be comparing parses to top players. They're not looking to provide comprehensive reports to the devs. The tools to parse and track and compare already exist, but casual players don't use them and wouldn't use them just because they'd be built into the game. It's part of, well, having a more casual approach to the game.

The game needs better teaching tools and could use a general instructional performance assessment, but a parser isn't that.

[Dzian]

You measure it against a high parse. Compare your xiva to the xiva result for a top SAM. Remember xiva isn't about dps.

Let's say for example you had 85% uptime, missed 3 CD's and 4 rotational errors, but a 95+ percentile had 99% uptime, only missed 1 CD and no rotational errors, then you know you have room to improve and exactly what you need to work on. In particular Uptime is extremely important for dps.

However, if your xivanalysis result looked similar to the result of a 95%+ log, then you know it's purely a gear issue. For a 513 it sounds like you're doing decent.
.

Interesting. seesm like i'll have to take a deeper look into it.the quick comparison i did looked pretty similar. they had just over 2% more uptime than me and an improved higabana uptime. mine can drop off if i mis time the phase transitions or jumps. they seemed like the biggest differences. it did also flag i missed a coupe of kaiten somewhere but that might be latency or something. ive noticed a small delay when jumping across platforms where your buttons dont always register. but if thats as big as the differences get then i must be doing pretty well.

however it still indicates a 39th percentile on logs which i would still consider to be an innacurate representation of my skill.a lot of people would look at that and be very quickto pass a negative judgement.

[SturmChurro]

If your gear is horrifically out of date, specifically your weapon (like me). Doesn't really matter how good you do on those.

[Liam_Harper]

however it still indicates a 39th percentile on logs which i would still consider to be an innacurate representation of my skill.a lot of people would look at that and be very quickto pass a negative judgement.

Anyone who judges an EX log based on a quick glance at dps isn't worth listening to. You're right indeed that the standalone 39th percentile number is a poor representation of ability, but the additional analysis tools a parse enables are a great way to evaluate personal performance (which is the best use for logs). For Diamond EX, make sure you try to jump just as you start your GCD to minimize uptime loss. Kaiten and Higan uptime can easily be polished, but sounds like you're going well.