Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Caurcas]

Dude, that is basically your ENTIRE take in this thread. "I'm the only one that matters in this group I lazily let the game randomly match me with and only my little numbers on a third party app or the way I think they should be playing matters".

Objectively wrong though, as the group (however bad) benefits from my decent skill. I.E. I give far more benefits than I take away, the same can not be said for about half the players I am matched with.

[Jadedsins]

Dude, that is basically your ENTIRE take in this thread. "I'm the only one that matters in this group I lazily let the game randomly match me with and only my little numbers on a third party app or the way I think they should be playing matters".

I kinda agree, while I am very much aware that my playstyle might bother people I group with. (even though it is kinda silly when the content is design to be done with my skill level in mind.). What they seem to want is for me to change how I enjoy the game just for that one type of content that I only do when the game requires me to do it.



This game has wayyy more content than grouping and combat, and come on..if you want more control over what type of players you get. You have the tools to do it. Convenience comes at the cost of grouping up with players like little ol me. lol.

[Ammokkx]

Objectively wrong though, as the group (however bad) benefits from my decent skill. I.E. I give far more benefits than I take away, the same can not be said for about half the players I am matched with.

Okay at this point you have to be doing this on purpose. Nobody is that conceited.

[lezard21]

Yesterday and today I did Leveling Roulette on my NIN. Qitana Ravel and Bardam's Mettle respectively.

Both times I got teamed up with a healer that would only spam Cure, Cure II and Cure III. The Qitana Ravel one was a returning player with only a level 76 WHM leveled up. The Bardam's Mettle had 2 other classes above level 60.

Each run took 50+ and 40+ min respectively. Yesterday I decided to stay quiet and see if anyone else in the party would say something, but instead the Tank "adjusted" by doing single mob group pulls, and we wiped once to mobs, once to the 2nd boss and twice to the 3rd boss.

Today after we wiped to the Tank pulling 2 groups of mobs (not even a wall to wall pull) and the healer said in chat that he was pulling too much, I decided to speak up and politely tell the WHM to take a second to read the descriptions of Medica II, Tetragamation, Assize, Afflatus, Benediction and Divine Benison, that we would wait for him. I immediately got told off by the other DPS to be nicer cause the healer was "new". How is being a level 67 WHM with 2 other jobs above 60 considered "new"??

I was recounting these events to some friends over in Discord who advised me to either drop the party or deal with it because if I kept pushing the subject I could be reported for harrasment and get banned.

So while this is a problem enabled by players, at it's core it's also enabled by the GMs that consider people requesting others to do the bare minimum expected of their jobs (I was not even requesting him to DPS while healing, just to use the heals that he had available) a form of harrasment and bannable.

Seeing as this influx of "new" and "returning" players was caused by the Endwalker announcement, for the time being I'll stick to PoTD, HoH and Bozja leveling and avoid Leveling Roulette and dungeons like the plague.

[Caurcas]

Okay at this point you have to be doing this on purpose. Nobody is that conceited.

Its not being conceited, its telling the truth.

[Jadedsins]

Yesterday and today I did Leveling Roulette on my NIN. Qitana Ravel and Bardam's Mettle respectively.

Both times I got teamed up with a healer that would only spam Cure, Cure II and Cure III. The Qitana Ravel one was a returning player with only a level 76 WHM leveled up. The Bardam's Mettle had 2 other classes above level 60.

Each run took 50+ and 40+ min respectively. Yesterday I decided to stay quiet and see if anyone else in the party would say something, but instead the Tank "adjusted" by doing single mob group pulls, and we wiped once to mobs, once to the 2nd boss and twice to the 3rd boss.

Today after we wiped to the Tank pulling 2 groups of mobs (not even a wall to wall pull) and the healer said in chat that he was pulling too much, I decided to speak up and politely tell the WHM to take a second to read the descriptions of Medica II, Tetragamation, Assize, Afflatus, Benediction and Divine Benison, that we would wait for him. I immediately got told off by the other DPS to be nicer cause the healer was "new". How is being a level 67 WHM with 2 other jobs above 60 considered "new"??

I was recounting these events to some friends over in Discord who advised me to either drop the party or deal with it because if I kept pushing the subject I could be reported for harrasment and get banned.

So while this is a problem enabled by players, at it's core it's also enabled by the GMs that consider people requesting others to do the bare minimum expected of their jobs (I was not even requesting him to DPS while healing, just to use the heals that he had available) a form of harrasment and bannable.

Seeing as this influx of "new" and "returning" players was caused by the Endwalker announcement, for the time being I'll stick to PoTD, HoH and Bozja leveling and avoid Leveling Roulette and dungeons like the plague.

My husband kinda went over this, but you could have whisper the person and ask would they like some advice. Trying to help someone can also make them feel bad for failing and being new. Being polite does not mean that whm has to listen to your advice.



Using a queue system to make a group for you right? So the cost of convenience is quality. A group failing or taking longer is not such a big deal in a game is it?

[TaleraRistain]

Today after we wiped to the Tank pulling 2 groups of mobs (not even a wall to wall pull) and the healer said in chat that he was pulling too much, I decided to speak up and politely tell the WHM to take a second to read the descriptions of Medica II, Tetragamation, Assize, Afflatus, Benediction and Divine Benison, that we would wait for him. I immediately got told off by the other DPS to be nicer cause the healer was "new". How is being a level 67 WHM with 2 other jobs above 60 considered "new"??

If that's really how you put it, then it sounds like your phrasing could use some work. That comes off as dismissive, impatient, and accusatory, especially the "we'll wait for you" part. If you have experience in the class and want to offer to share that, then just explain that you are a fellow WHM and you have some tips that might make things easier if they're open to it. And if they say no, then that's that.

Another way to approach it is to not single any one person out but say something like "Team, I see we're having some problems. Would it help if we take a breather to assess and figure out what we can adjust?"

[Nethereal]

So does a mmo means that a player must play by the rules of others around them? I'm just thinking about Ultima online and some other mmorpgs that things like this was not really a big deal.

That is because there is no game that has combat that functions exactly like FFXIV.
The uniqueness is on levels of Mabinogi and the concept behind the flow of combat would probably be similar to Tera.

The reason it isn't such a big deal in other games is that they don't have hard enrages as common practice it's usually only something you see in high-endgame content and even then they might not have a hard enrage only a soft one like in tera where if you don't kill something fast enough it'll get a buff where it does more damage and is faster.

The reason this game has hard enrages is because the concept of combat is slow and static and not erratic, with practice you should be able to do everything easily as there is almost no randomness where as in other games boss's usually have mechanics that will randomly target people consistently through out the fight during other mechanics and it will catch you off guard and eventually kill you, you'll never see two different mechanics going on in FFXIV that aren't intended to be done in a specific way.

Other games literally have multiple mechanics go off with the express intent to kill you and that's fine because it's action oriented and the death in those games isn't as costly as it is in FFXIV. Pretty much every other game has resources that can be built and maxed after about 30 seconds if that, in FFXIV you have resources that take 1 minute normal and upwards of 90 seconds to max out in a game where nothing is random death is a lot more costly for the trade off that content is a lot more simple.

Basically you're comparing apples and oranges, there is no game with a combat system like FFXIV.

A mmorpg does not mean force grouping does it? Grouping is a element of the mmorpg.

Context is relevant but any actual gamer will know that a large amount of relevant content in a MMORPG will in general mean forced grouping (whether that means immediate grouping is irrelevant) unless the content was designed specifically for a lower amount of players or to solo, to expect otherwise would honestly be disingenuous.

At the end of the day it is still a game, and the game design where I must group at times. Well the content is design that my skill, or how I want to play the game it can still get done. I'm ok with grouping, and the game has rules to protect me from players being mean about how I enjoy the game.

Mean is too subjective and has too much bias.
Anyone can be "mean", you playing the way you want to play the game could be "mean".

Now, if I was to do lets say super hard content that is not required, and I go in expecting how I enjoy the game to get me through it. Every player should vote kick me, because I don't belong in said content.

The difficulty is irrelevant in relation to your attitude about the content, a bad player doing ultimate content is still a bad player when they do casual content, vice versa.

Nor does the game control where you should be, everything is elective the expectations may vary on the content but your attitude about the content and how you play should be a constant.
Deciding you want to intentionally gimp people because it's casual content does not change the nature of the action only the result. It's principal.

To go against the grain of self improvement for the betterment of the group intentionally whether malicious or not does not change the nature of said actions and it shouldn't be surprising that some people will elect to vote you out in hopes to find more like-minded individuals.
Now if you were to not understand that and for it to be unintentional is a whole different conversation.

How I play still has massive amount of players. I still use them (for profits in trading.) and talk with them. Interact with them in the world and such. Lucky now most group content can be solo as well with Trusts. So the game even caters to my mindset and what I feel a mmorpg is.



I am sure we will not agree, but hey that is ok with me! lol.

That's honestly fine nothing wrong with playing the game you want to play it but respect the reality of the situation you're putting yourself in.

[JRat]

That comes off as dismissive, impatient, and accusatory, especially the "we'll wait for you" part.

I dont think it was rude. If you are looking to be offended then maybe but unless it was :

"Wow, you are terrible at healing. Havenʻt you even read your spell abilities? Go on then, read them. Weʻll wait for you while you waste our time."

that comes off as WAY more dismissive, impatient, and accusatory than what lezard posted

[Xia_Thas]

I dont think it was rude. If you are looking to be offended then maybe but unless it was :

"Wow, you are terrible at healing. Havenʻt you even read your spell abilities? Go on then, read them. Weʻll wait for you while you waste our time."

that comes off as WAY more dismissive, impatient, and accusatory than what lezard posted

It's all based off interputation. What's offensive to you may not be to others and vice versa. End of the day if they took offense that's on them, all you can do is try to explain and clear up the misunderstanding if such devastation was not your intention.