Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[lezard21]

Yesterday and today I did Leveling Roulette on my NIN. Qitana Ravel and Bardam's Mettle respectively.

Both times I got teamed up with a healer that would only spam Cure, Cure II and Cure III. The Qitana Ravel one was a returning player with only a level 76 WHM leveled up. The Bardam's Mettle had 2 other classes above level 60.

Each run took 50+ and 40+ min respectively. Yesterday I decided to stay quiet and see if anyone else in the party would say something, but instead the Tank "adjusted" by doing single mob group pulls, and we wiped once to mobs, once to the 2nd boss and twice to the 3rd boss.

Today after we wiped to the Tank pulling 2 groups of mobs (not even a wall to wall pull) and the healer said in chat that he was pulling too much, I decided to speak up and politely tell the WHM to take a second to read the descriptions of Medica II, Tetragamation, Assize, Afflatus, Benediction and Divine Benison, that we would wait for him. I immediately got told off by the other DPS to be nicer cause the healer was "new". How is being a level 67 WHM with 2 other jobs above 60 considered "new"??

I was recounting these events to some friends over in Discord who advised me to either drop the party or deal with it because if I kept pushing the subject I could be reported for harrasment and get banned.

So while this is a problem enabled by players, at it's core it's also enabled by the GMs that consider people requesting others to do the bare minimum expected of their jobs (I was not even requesting him to DPS while healing, just to use the heals that he had available) a form of harrasment and bannable.

Seeing as this influx of "new" and "returning" players was caused by the Endwalker announcement, for the time being I'll stick to PoTD, HoH and Bozja leveling and avoid Leveling Roulette and dungeons like the plague.

[Jadedsins]

Yesterday and today I did Leveling Roulette on my NIN. Qitana Ravel and Bardam's Mettle respectively.

Both times I got teamed up with a healer that would only spam Cure, Cure II and Cure III. The Qitana Ravel one was a returning player with only a level 76 WHM leveled up. The Bardam's Mettle had 2 other classes above level 60.

Each run took 50+ and 40+ min respectively. Yesterday I decided to stay quiet and see if anyone else in the party would say something, but instead the Tank "adjusted" by doing single mob group pulls, and we wiped once to mobs, once to the 2nd boss and twice to the 3rd boss.

Today after we wiped to the Tank pulling 2 groups of mobs (not even a wall to wall pull) and the healer said in chat that he was pulling too much, I decided to speak up and politely tell the WHM to take a second to read the descriptions of Medica II, Tetragamation, Assize, Afflatus, Benediction and Divine Benison, that we would wait for him. I immediately got told off by the other DPS to be nicer cause the healer was "new". How is being a level 67 WHM with 2 other jobs above 60 considered "new"??

I was recounting these events to some friends over in Discord who advised me to either drop the party or deal with it because if I kept pushing the subject I could be reported for harrasment and get banned.

So while this is a problem enabled by players, at it's core it's also enabled by the GMs that consider people requesting others to do the bare minimum expected of their jobs (I was not even requesting him to DPS while healing, just to use the heals that he had available) a form of harrasment and bannable.

Seeing as this influx of "new" and "returning" players was caused by the Endwalker announcement, for the time being I'll stick to PoTD, HoH and Bozja leveling and avoid Leveling Roulette and dungeons like the plague.

My husband kinda went over this, but you could have whisper the person and ask would they like some advice. Trying to help someone can also make them feel bad for failing and being new. Being polite does not mean that whm has to listen to your advice.



Using a queue system to make a group for you right? So the cost of convenience is quality. A group failing or taking longer is not such a big deal in a game is it?

[Nethereal]

My husband kinda went over this, but you could have whisper the person and ask would they like some advice. Trying to help someone can also make them feel bad for failing and being new. Being polite does not mean that whm has to listen to your advice.



Using a queue system to make a group for you right? So the cost of convenience is quality. A group failing or taking longer is not such a big deal in a game is it?

I assume you mean whisper them after the atrocity is over as you can't use the tell system mid dungeon queue iirc.

I dont think it was rude. If you are looking to be offended then maybe but unless it was :

"Wow, you are terrible at healing. Havenʻt you even read your spell abilities? Go on then, read them. Weʻll wait for you while you waste our time."

that comes off as WAY more dismissive, impatient, and accusatory than what lezard posted

To be honest people that bad will not improve because you suddenly tell them what their skills do so I usually don't bother talking at all. However if you do want to give advice to people you should ask first for the best results:
"Do you mind if I give you a little advice?"

Last night I spend 1h in gubal library. 1st wipe was to no tank stance, 2nd wipe was to taking tank stance off, 3rd wipe was to final boss, 4th wipe was to final boss, 5th wipe was to final boss, 6th wipe was to final boss. Failing to stand on the pads to stop ad spawns, running around like chickens with their heads cut off like it was somehow going to stop the ads from hitting them and the tank was doing it as well.

Lovely time, After a brief explanation of how to stand on the pads and to not drop the red markers in the center of the arena or run through them didn't work I ended up just telling them to stand in anything that glows and we would be better for it.

[TaleraRistain]

Today after we wiped to the Tank pulling 2 groups of mobs (not even a wall to wall pull) and the healer said in chat that he was pulling too much, I decided to speak up and politely tell the WHM to take a second to read the descriptions of Medica II, Tetragamation, Assize, Afflatus, Benediction and Divine Benison, that we would wait for him. I immediately got told off by the other DPS to be nicer cause the healer was "new". How is being a level 67 WHM with 2 other jobs above 60 considered "new"??

If that's really how you put it, then it sounds like your phrasing could use some work. That comes off as dismissive, impatient, and accusatory, especially the "we'll wait for you" part. If you have experience in the class and want to offer to share that, then just explain that you are a fellow WHM and you have some tips that might make things easier if they're open to it. And if they say no, then that's that.

Another way to approach it is to not single any one person out but say something like "Team, I see we're having some problems. Would it help if we take a breather to assess and figure out what we can adjust?"

[JRat]

That comes off as dismissive, impatient, and accusatory, especially the "we'll wait for you" part.

I dont think it was rude. If you are looking to be offended then maybe but unless it was :

"Wow, you are terrible at healing. Havenʻt you even read your spell abilities? Go on then, read them. Weʻll wait for you while you waste our time."

that comes off as WAY more dismissive, impatient, and accusatory than what lezard posted

[Xia_Thas]

I dont think it was rude. If you are looking to be offended then maybe but unless it was :

"Wow, you are terrible at healing. Havenʻt you even read your spell abilities? Go on then, read them. Weʻll wait for you while you waste our time."

that comes off as WAY more dismissive, impatient, and accusatory than what lezard posted

It's all based off interputation. What's offensive to you may not be to others and vice versa. End of the day if they took offense that's on them, all you can do is try to explain and clear up the misunderstanding if such devastation was not your intention.

[SturmChurro]

It's all based off interputation. What's offensive to you may not be to others and vice versa. End of the day if they took offense that's on them, all you can do is try to explain and clear up the misunderstanding if such devastation was not your intention.

This is just another reason on why not to offer unsolicited advice. Just saying "Would you like some advice?" implies the player is doing something wrong, and a lot of people don't like that. They take that statement as passive-aggression, heck, a lot of times it is passive-aggression.

[lezard21]

My husband kinda went over this, but you could have whisper the person and ask would they like some advice. Trying to help someone can also make them feel bad for failing and being new. Being polite does not mean that whm has to listen to your advice.

If that's really how you put it, then it sounds like your phrasing could use some work. That comes off as dismissive, impatient, and accusatory, especially the "we'll wait for you" part. If you have experience in the class and want to offer to share that, then just explain that you are a fellow WHM and you have some tips that might make things easier if they're open to it. And if they say no, then that's that.

Another way to approach it is to not single any one person out but say something like "Team, I see we're having some problems. Would it help if we take a breather to assess and figure out what we can adjust?"

Valid points if we are talking level 50 content or below (specially for WHM since they gain a bulk of important skills around that level mark), or if we are talking about not proper ability usage.

Not so much when we are talking level 65 and 75 content respectively and not usage of half of your abilities at all. We are talking about going through 3/4 and 90% of the game without using 50% of your kit.

Players should not have to write formal proposals for assistance over stuff the game has already explained for over 64/74 levels bit by bit so you can get familiar with how each ability works and how to use them.

This is exactly the "enabling" OP was talking about.

[Jadedsins]

Valid points if we are talking level 50 content or below (specially for WHM since they gain a bulk of important skills around that level mark), or if we are talking about not proper ability usage.

Not so much when we are talking level 65 and 75 content respectively and not usage of half of your abilities at all. We are talking about going through 3/4 and 90% of the game without using 50% of your kit.

Players should not have to write formal proposals for assistance over stuff the game has already explained for over 64/74 levels bit by bit so you can get familiar with how each ability works and how to use them.

This is exactly the "enabling" OP was talking about.

but again, you picked to use a tool that makes grouping with players easier. It does not matter what level said person is. If they don't want to use half of the skills they have. They have that right to do it with the settings the game provides, and the developers are ok with that.

You have tools in the game that lets you make your own groups, and set the rules you want and requirements needed for group.



The way I see queue up grouping systems is like a open market and the perks of building groups quickly comes at a heavy price at times. Progression to me is a perk, and I understand some people feel progression is fun and having someone slow it down can ruin his or her fun. It can't be helped and is the nature of mmos.

[Awha]

but again, you picked to use a tool that makes grouping with players easier. It does not matter what level said person is. If they don't want to use half of the skills they have. They have that right to do it with the settings the game provides, and the developers are ok with that.

You have tools in the game that lets you make your own groups, and set the rules you want and requirements needed for group.



The way I see queue up grouping systems is like a open market and the perks of building groups quickly comes at a heavy price at times. Progression to me is a perk, and I understand some people feel progression is fun and having someone slow it down can ruin his or her fun. It can't be helped and is the nature of mmos.

Sure, but when people like that get removed without a reason then hopefully they do not act too surprised it happened.