Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[MyakotApelsia]

Your missing the point, If she asks for advice you should give it. Unless you are in a linkshell and or guild that has a set rules on how skilled you should be.

Wanting to help people is fine, but throwing out advice in party or at least not respecting them enough to ask in whispers if they would like some, and if they say no thank you. That is it.

Do you know how often players just openly start giving advice to players, as if they should? It is a public group with no set rules on how anyone should play.

Asking isn't really a requirement either. If you don't care about your performance, you wouldn't take it either way, regardless of whether someone asked you or not.

And i would argue giving "advice without consent" is still better for player experience than silent kick that some people do to not bother.

Also actual mentors (not bk crown ones) are probably having time of their life when the game tells them to help players, and then others tell them that giving advice is bad "unless asked"

Why in bloody hell do you actually think that he is suggesting anyone offering advice to her wife should be banned.

I'm glad this game protects her from people like me, Who would try and teach her or be upset and lash out at her for wasting my time. So i am glad that I can have some peace of mind knowing that if people try and ruin her way of thinking or fun. They can get in trouble

The only trouble ever that anyone ever gets are warnings/bans thanks to ToS abuse (and yeah i consider current state of tos to be "open to abuse").

[LaughingBanana]

The only trouble ever that anyone ever gets are warnings/bans thanks to ToS abuse (and yeah i consider current state of tos to be "open to abuse").

Hmm, I guess I can see why you think that way, I apologize.

But I really don't think he means that anyone giving advice to his wife should be banned. Just be reasonable about it and it should be fine.

And give the guy some break, he seems sleepy, hahaha.

[MyakotApelsia]

Hmm, I guess I can see why you think that way, I apologize.

But I really don't think he means that anyone giving advice to his wife should be banned. Just be reasonable about it and it should be fine.

And give the guy some break, he seems sleepy, hahaha.

Yeah im not currently at my best myself, 3 hours of sleep didn't do me justice, i can already see grammar mistakes in my previous post lol

And yeah i agree, just think that it could've been worded better in that case, but its usual for 3am

[Wavaryen]

Asking isn't really a requirement either. If you don't care about your performance, you wouldn't take it either way, regardless of whether someone asked you or not.

And i would argue giving "advice without consent" is still better for player experience than silent kick that some people do to not bother.

Also actual mentors (not bk crown ones) are probably having time of their life when the game tells them to help players, and then others tell them that giving advice is bad "unless asked"






The only trouble ever that anyone ever gets are warnings/bans thanks to ToS abuse (and yeah i consider current state of tos to be "open to abuse").

I can see why you think that, and I did not mean it like that. My bad.


I've seen how it makes people feel to openly give advice in front of others, it makes people defensive, and some it makes them feel bad. Like they are failing the group. That is why I say asking shows more respect to the person. Ya that person does not to do it. Have you ever saw someone try to help someone in the group and they get super defensive?


Correcting people in front of others makes them feel bad. I know this because when I was a raid leader, I weaponize it. So I came off protective with that last comment my bad.

[Nethereal]

I was replying to someone who wondered why people looked down on them being incredibly selfish who didn't seem to notice their take WAS selfish. I've already said my peace on what OP can do about his problem.

I can see where they're coming from.

Inherently no one's time is more valuable than your own because it is 'your time' however that means it makes sense to treat people the way you want to be treated in hopes to increase the chance of them respecting your time.
The opposite side of that is anyone disrespecting your time does not deserve your time, the reason is really irrelevant but I just thought I would put that thought process out there.

I been reading this awhile, and want to add my perspective on this very long back and forth.

This is going to be a ramble, so if you read it. Kudos.


A very long time ago, when I was much younger I played EQ, did some raiding and did not know much about min/maxing. After all..I was a ranger. Endless quiver/sow bot.

Got into wow, and my views of mmorpg changed. I was a raid leader, and a toxic one at that. If you want to do end game content, you should play your best or at least try your best. If you failed more than once on the same thing. You had to bring a repair bot for the people you failed. We geared you out, and that gear you used belongs to all of us. That was the guild pride. Many expansions later, I gained a disability, and I can no longer play as good as I once was. I am sure I could find people that would accept that, but it is a me problem. I can't accept it, and to this day struggle to accept it.

Now, I play a MMO with my wife...and she is the type of player that use to make me rage. She would look at a class, pick what skills she liked and did not like and use the ones she only liked.
When I told her that is not good dps. She would be like so? I'm like, don't you want to improve? She said sure I do, in the way that is fun to me.

Watching her fail and laugh, smile and have fun in games that I use to take serious. I understand that it was not her playing the game wrong. It was me.

My point of this story is, I'm glad this game protects her from people like me, Who would try and teach her or be upset and lash out at her for wasting my time. This game to get through the story content, it sometimes requires us to group. So i am glad that I can have some peace of mind knowing that if people try and ruin her way of thinking or fun. They can get in trouble. It is not anyone place.

This is very similar to RPing in public dungeons/areas/runs

It's nice that your wife is having fun and there are places for that mentality but she should also respect that her way of playing is unique and that it warrants annoyance from most people as she is disrespecting the time of anyone she plays with intentionally, this is fine in a controlled group of friends but with randoms it's not their responsibility to play along. Other than that have fun the way you want to have fun.

[Caurcas]

"Remember only your fun matters, not the people playing with you. They might as well be npcs, and they are there to serve you." -Great Community

[Seera1024]

I can see where they're coming from.

Inherently no one's time is more valuable than your own because it is 'your time' however that means it makes sense to treat people the way you want to be treated in hopes to increase the chance of them respecting your time.
The opposite side of that is anyone disrespecting your time does not deserve your time, the reason is really irrelevant but I just thought I would put that thought process out there.



This is very similar to RPing in public dungeons/areas/runs

It's nice that your wife is having fun and there are places for that mentality but she should also respect that her way of playing is unique and that it warrants annoyance from most people as she is disrespecting the time of anyone she plays with intentionally, this is fine in a controlled group of friends but with randoms it's not their responsibility to play along. Other than that have fun the way you want to have fun.

I'd say as long as her way of playing is not causing wipes or anything like that, that she's fine to play how she wants. I'd imagine that any content that's required for the MSQ is probably forgiving enough for most play styles.

[_Koneko_]

points to ToS Section 3.2 this is the very rule you agreed to follow when you signed up for an account for this game aka you have 0 reason to complain now that I've masterfully deconstructed this thread how about we move on

[ReynTime]

I'd say as long as her way of playing is not causing wipes or anything like that, that she's fine to play how she wants. I'd imagine that any content that's required for the MSQ is probably forgiving enough for most play styles.

Half the time there is no wipe because 2 or 3 of the 4 are playing their jobs right, not because "it's MSQ so you can play however".

[Seera1024]

Half the time there is no wipe because 2 or 3 of the 4 are playing their jobs right, not because "it's MSQ so you can play however".

Which is why I said that she could play as she likes in MSQ content because it is forgiving of most things if other players are playing closer to the meta.