[Critical] Male Viera height slider; tall option. Show your support.

[Hunky]

Roes, male Au Ra, Hrothgar, Elezen are already tall races, they are not mid. Hyrs are the middle ground, then miqo & lalas are short.
Highlanders are the smallest of the tall races, midlanders are the tallest of the small races.
I alway see the race descriptions as something written by a hyur (who are the middle ground), so Elezen alredy being tall make more sence.
If you play the tallest races at max height already: yeah female viera size will feel small.

I think a lot of players have this perception that male Midlanders are the "average joe" of the game. And while they do make up a good portion of the population, they are actually on the shorter end of the male race height chart. Female Viera would feel short in this chart, but they are definitely on the taller side in the female race height chart.

Understandable tbh but is min elezen and max highlander small to you? If they do male viera in the same way as female viera: Male viera will be smaller than max male elezen and taller than max male highlander. Worst case it's female viera size and max female viera is close to min male elezen.

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I think you'll get it but it might not be as tall as max elezen, at worst it will be close to min male elezen. I really don't see male viera ending up 100% shorter than highlanders.

Actually, that's my prediction for male Viera. I predict that the male Viera will be between male Highlander and male Elezen, just like how right now, female Viera is between female Highlander and female Elezen. I wouldn't feel that's small at all.

I think ppl just prefer small races that's it, they don't want to tower everyone. Since they are into the bishonen look, they want viera to not be too tall (just like you don't like being too small).

Because they didnt want it (not into beast races) and ppl who wanted hrothgar were happy with their size? Some ppl who liked viera but wanted to be short as well asked for it.

Female Viera was an option for players who wanted to play an elegant, tall girl race without having to choose Elezen or Roegadyn. People asking for the female Viera to be shorter so they can be as short as the female Miqo'te felt unfair because it sounded like people who want to play shorter characters were trying to take away a tall character option from people who want to play taller characters. And that's how I feel when people demand that male Viera be as short as male Miqo'te.

Even though we don't know exactly how tall male Viera are supposed to be, we can get a general sense when we look at past evidence: Yoshi saying they would be Elezen-like, concept art depicting them as tall, etc. So it definitely raises hopes for players like me who want a tall, pretty boy race that isn't Elezen.

If it's considered a "hijack" if people want them shorter than females, then it's also a "hijack" if people want them taller than females.
What I'm getting at is it's a bit unfair to say that, especially since their height has not been confirmed. (We know they are tall, but we don't know specifically how they compare to their female counterpart.)

And I'm totally fine with your opinion. I think the males will most likely be the same height or a little taller than the females.

I definitely see what you mean. However, I don't 100% agree that making males taller than females is hijacking.

I say this because in this game, the grand majority of races follow the same dimorphism rule: that males are, in general, taller than females (just like in real life). Of course, most races can have their females be taller if the female is put at maximum height and the male is put at average or minimum height. For example, a male Elezen at minimum height is shorter than a female Elezen at maximum height. That's totally fine and normal. I wouldn't object at all to a minimum height male Viera being shorter than a maximum height female Viera. I think it would be the most logical. And, if you make that male Elezen maximum height, he's going to be taller than a max height female Elezen. Despite this being a fantasy game with fantasy races, the game does try to reflect how average heights for males and females work in real life.

It's like the example I used of Thailand and the Netherlands. Average height for men and women in Thailand is 5'6" and 5'2". In the Netherlands, women, on average, are taller than Thai men, standing at 5'7". However, Dutch men on average are 5'11". And the grand majority of the races in this game work this way as well. The only exception are Lalafells and Au Ra.

So I don't think it's a stretch to assume that male Viera will be taller than females. I don't think it's unreasonable.

If you made male Viera shorter than the females, the male Viera would be imbalanced in the male race chart. It would be imbalanced because most of the other races, males are taller than females. That's what happened to female Au Ra. Female Au Ra being made shorter caused the imbalance. If the female Au Ra were made to be proportional to their male counterparts, the racial height charts for both males and females would line up evenly.

This is what I mean.



For the most part, the racial height charts line up evenly, with the exception of Au Ra. That's because female Au Ra were not made to be proportional to the males.

If we wanted male Viera to fit in according to the rule that most of the other races follow, then male Viera would have to be taller than female. But that doesn't mean male Viera is going to be taller than Elezen, Hrothgar, etc. It just means that male Viera is proportional to the females.

So to me, it makes the most sense that male Viera height would be between male Highlander and male Elezen. Just like how it wouldn't be surprising for female Hrothgar height to be between female Roegadyn and female Elezen.

[Senn]

I say this because in this game, the grand majority of races follow the same dimorphism rule: that males are, in general, taller than females (just like in real life).

Yeah, and it's a logical assumption to make. However, we don't know if the viera are going to be an exception to that rule. We don't know if the male viera model that was created is going to have a taller min/max height than female viera. What we do know is that the height has been set already, but other than that, the height is up to speculation. And like I said before, it most likely will be the case that the males are the same height as the females or taller, but we don't know that right now.

That's why I'm saying if you're going to call it hijacking, it goes both ways.

[Hunky]

Yeah, and it's a logical assumption to make. However, we don't know if the viera are going to be an exception to that rule. We don't know if the male viera model that was created is going to have a taller min/max height than female viera. What we do know is that the height has been set already, but other than that, the height is up to speculation. And like I said before, it most likely will be the case that the males are the same height as the females or taller, but we don't know that right now.

That's why I'm saying if you're going to call it hijacking, it goes both ways.

I'm saying it's hijacking because people are asking for male Viera to be very short, the same size as Miqo'te, which does feel very uncharacteristic for Viera.

I'm not asking for male Viera to be extremely tall, like Roegadyn and male Au Ra. All I'm asking is that they are proportional to the females like most of the other races in the game. Does that mean they would have to be a little taller than females? Yes, but not to the extreme.

Yes, we don't know exactly how tall male Viera are supposed to be, but we can look to other pieces of evidence that suggests what their height is supposed to be. We know from the concept art that males are meant to be tall, and we can also tell from Yoshi's comment that male Viera would be similar to Elezen builds. If anything, wanting male Viera to be as short as male Miqo'te would not be in line with Yoshi's vision.

[Renik]

I'm personally not worried about the max height, I made my own comparison with extreme care to make it as accurate as possible and I'm satisfied with the results. As some users said, It's probably too late to vastly change the slider(no giant or tiny bunnies), they are probably working on the gear right now, and before doing that they needed decide on an average height and then max and min, of course I could be wrong, but as a developer myself this is the most optimal and logical workflow, Even if the height is already set, the gear in this game allows for some stretching, that wouldn't make a big extreme slider, but can probably add more scale in both directions.

Now I'm gonna post this here in case some of you missed it in the other thread.

I just want to add and height comparison of my own, since I'm as curios and excited as everyone, my current character is a max height elezen, compared to unknown male viera.

I matched the angle and zoom the best I could, positioned my elezen's feet where the viera's feet were positioned in the scene before, I also tried to match with a similar idle pose.

2 details to keep in mind, the viera is slightly hunched in this picture, this is the frame before he statrs walking and the only one where his back is more or less straight, while my elezen's back is completely straight. In the video the viera is shown without any clipping, but the plank where he stands clips with the character in game, I don't know if it's still not clipping after he stands, in case he were not clipping it would make my elezen look about 1cm shorter.

I would say that there's a margin of error of 2cm down and 1cm up in the m viera height, even with this, if the m viera is indeed average, I would say that max height males are same height as females if not taller, but definitely shorter than elezen.

I encourage anyone who wants to try to do their own comparisons.

The originals:



Comparison:

[Senn]

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I've seen a few people who want male viera min/max height to be just a little bit shorter than the females, nothing extreme or drastic. Since the female viera are quite tall, even if the males are a bit shorter than the females, they would still be tall. I don't really have a problem with it either way.

On a side note, I have done a height comparison of my own that I posted in my thread, but I'll post it here too. They look to be around the same height.


(Keep in mind the female viera is wearing high heels)

When I was doing this comparison, I tried to keep their head size the same (I figure their heads will be relatively the same size in the game, so that's the way I measured it). That's what the red outline is showing.

I did a second height comparison privately and found that max height male viera's head (the very top of their head, not ears) goes up to max height female roegadyn's collarbone. Minimum height male viera goes up to max height female roegadyn's chest.

None of this is 100% accurate obviously, just an estimate.

[Yencat]

(Keep in mind the female viera is wearing high heels)

Heels in the game don't really work like they do in real life, the character model stays the same height no matter what's on their feet.

[Senn]

Heels in the game don't really work like they do in real life, the character model stays the same height no matter what's on their feet.

Oh for real? I didn't know that.

[Hunky]

I've seen a few people who want male viera min/max height to be just a little bit shorter than the females, nothing extreme or drastic. Since the female viera are quite tall, even if the males are a bit shorter than the females, they would still be tall. I don't really have a problem with it either way.

On a side note, I have done a height comparison of my own that I posted in my thread, but I'll post it here too. They look to be around the same height.


(Keep in mind the female viera is wearing high heels)

When I was doing this comparison, I tried to keep their head size the same (I figure their heads will be relatively the same size in the game, so that's the way I measured it). That's what the red outline is showing.

I did a second height comparison privately and found that max height male viera's head (the very top of their head) goes up to max height female roegadyn's collarbone. Minimum height male viera goes up to max height female roegadyn's chest.

None of this is 100% accurate obviously, just an estimate.

Thanks for doing this. By the way, the heels don't actually factor into the height. Heels in this game don't make your character taller; they just cut your legs shorter.

But yeah, I agree. I have seen both requests for male Viera to only be slightly shorter than the females and for male Viera to be drastically shorter than the females.

My problem with that is that if male Viera are shorter than females, even slightly, they would end up being around the same height as male Midlanders, and that would defeat the purpose of having a tall, handsome male race.

The thing is, the whole "we want short bunny boys" thing is gaining traction on social media, especially twitter. Male Viera was trending, and I stumbled upon more than a few weird posts. One post, an illustration, had about 15,000 likes. I can't get too much into detail, but it was definitely NSFW. Basically, people in the thread were creating fantasies about how a male Viera would've stumbled into a female Viera village and would face "punishment". The illustration was basically copying that one meme of the tall girl holding up the short girl. Only in this case, it was a female Viera holding up a male Viera. And of course, it got tons of likes and positive reactions.

What worries me is where does this desire to make male Viera short come from? I'm sure that some people just want to play a short pretty boy, just like how I want to play a tall pretty boy. But sometimes it does seem that the desire for short male Viera comes from a more sinister place. This is just from some of the weirder stuff I've seen on social media.

That's why sometimes I feel this whole "male bunnies should be shorter because that would be cool and interesting" is a substitute for "male bunnies should be shorter because I'm into that". And if that's the case, I feel like making male Viera shorter to fulfill this fantasy is really unfair.

But, eh. That's neither here nor there. The race has already been made. We'll just have to wait and see how they end up. Either way, I think it's cool that we finally get to see male Viera. FFXIV made history by revealing male Viera to the world, and that in itself is a pretty awesome accomplishment.

[Renik]

Oh for real? I didn't know that.

Yup, they adjust the leg lenght to make up for the feet size and avoid changing the character height, you can test this easily ingame.

[Yencat]

Oh for real? I didn't know that.

Yeah It's the same principle as where some chest pieces make breasts appear to be larger than what you picked in character creation, or the 2B pants give you a less flat booty, it just replaces what's there rather than adding to the actual character model.