[Critical] Male Viera height slider; tall option. Show your support.

[Fukuro]

One of the reasons i was supporting the inclusion of male viera so much was because i was waiting for a tall, handsome race to be implemented.
Given that this was the last chance of it ever happening and male viera being still a possibility, i was more than happy to see them introduced to the game.
personally, if they would be shorter (about highlander/miqo height) i‘m not sure i‘d stick with them for too long given the limitations, which my catboy wouldn‘t have and in all honesty, male viera would just have been miqo 2.0
we already have the most popular male races like hyur and miqo‘tes in the lower range of heights (compared to all races). i‘d be more than happy if male viera could bring some popularity to the tall races - which would bring me more diversity all in all in this game instead of just hijacking a race because „we want reverse au ra and this would bring in something new“

[Amnmaat]

Woah woah hold the phone. Are you serious saying men IRL ALWAYS ARE TALLER THEN FEMALES? Uhhhh I can find you many examples to prove you wrong. Is that the reason you want tall bun bun?

I’m really trying to understand in a fantasy game your reasoning why this is critical. As a 5’10” woman myself, I have zero issues playing small or tall races. Heck I’m playing a male highlander right now that looks a mix between Emperor Varis and George Washington ffs. I’ll be doing a male bun bun no matter the height. And my 6’2” sister is a male hrothgar with a fade.

And that's where height slider comes in. Height variety leans to taller males to shorter females both in game and in real life. I'm not introducing a wild idea here. As I said, when many of us think of using a fantasia to change to male Viera we're not concerned with the females. We're looking at the tall male options in the game which are very cartoonish, you're either a walking lion, a walking orc from world of warcraft, or an hourglass male with horns and scales. Where are our options to look somewhat normal? A height slider that pushes male Viera to the tall side but also allows a short male Viera is the real opportunity. Female Roegadyn achieved this with flying colors.

[Roda]

1. I never claimed that male Viera are soft
2. I stated that there are many of us who actually play male races who would play male Viera. I am tall so I am advocating for a male race that looks normal and not like an animal (Hrothgar), an orc (Roegadyn), or a lizard with hourglass shape (Au ra). This game gives male players really bad options, specially if you want to be tall. A femroe height slider would satisfy both the small and the tall side of things.
3. 6' is not tall in FF male height. Somewhere between male Elezen and male Highlander is where the average is which is closer to 6'3-6'5 (77 inches).

1. Just making my observations on your takes of gender expression from other threads, if that's wrong woopsie. /shrug What I've gotten from your posts is that you seem to prefer the more macho looks/dislike the more feminine looks and I'm trying to find a solution that would lead to a better foundation for character customization. (treating a disease not the symptom and all that)

2. and this is why I think bodytypes for each of the races would be a better solution. 'Cause with the females setting the standard at their current height it would look really weird to me to see the males pull an Au Ra and get close to roes/au ra in height where the females are kinda around elezen/highlander heights. And not to mention the scaling issues. Like I know you think it's fine that the femroe scaling is fine, but seeing a max height femroe next to a min height femroe looks very odd in my eyes. (like they're not even the same race) BUT, I could see a roe being less bulky, an Au Ra being thicker in the waist/thinner in the thighs, (highlanders getting eyebrows) or an elezen... getting a little polish, while also allowing for body type option allowing for scaling of the head and frame to make a more robust height slider seem more natural as a consequence! (Foundations!)

3. Eh, I guess it's a matter of perspective. I certainly feel tall on my max height highlander (6'1") especially since the taller races aren't played as much. The possible average (for males) might be shifted closer to taller than the human average, but in practice the playerbase as a whole is populated by mostly shorties, which is what I base my experience on.

First of all, males not being able to be taller than females is not objectively rad. That's totally your opinion.

Yes, that was the joke??
Like, formatting and an emoji? Saying something obviously based on personal taste is objective?? No can't possibly be sarcasm. Must be something said in complete seriousness!

Secondly, despite this being a fantasy game with fantasy races, most of the races do follow with the real-life human dimorphism that males in general are taller than females. If you go to a country where the average male height is 5'6", the average female height ends up being around 5"2", like Thailand. If you go to a country where the average male height is 5'11", the average female height ends up being 5'7", like the Netherlands. It's just the way it works, and it seems like the game definitely emulates this physiological reality with its own fantasy races. So it is safe to assume that male Viera would end up being taller than the females.

I mean ok, so what? male rabbits are smaller than female rabbits, they are a race that are yes humanoid, but also take inspiration from rabbit in both their biology and societal structure. Would be cool to see them use that as inspiration.

Of course, there are exceptions. You yourself can make this exception by playing as a minimum height male Viera. You'll be shorter than max height female Viera. You'll be shorter than a lot of character types actually.

Turn it around for my solution to someone who can't bear to see the ratios inverted. Good enough for me, good enough for you.

But you can't get mad and say, "I'm a minimum height male Viera. Why am I still taller than these max height Midlanders and Miqo'te?" Because you're playing Viera.

I never brought other races into this. They are their own designs. I'm not arguing in absolutes.

One of Viera's defining traits is their height, just like Elezen and Roegadyn. Granted, male Viera have never been revealed until now. But, it is logical to assume that give how races have been designed in this game, as well as the racial lore of the Viera, that the males would end up being taller, or at the very least, just as tall as the females.

Asking for Viera to be shorter is like asking for Elezen or Roegadyn to be shorter. Tallness is a part of what makes them distinct and unique.

If the viera, who have been defined by their females for so long, are also defined by their height, then the males don't NEED to be taller than them since the females were doing just fine enough with their tallness. Having their max be just a bit shorter than the females adds a bit of unique flavor that the game currently lacks. (And nowhere in the lore are the males described as needing to be taller. "they're survivalists" does less for that argument than you'd think)

When female Viera were finally released, a lot of threads popped up requesting that they be made shorter. One infamous user even posted something along the lines of "tallness isn't feminine".

Yeah those threads were silly.

People wanted to take something that made Viera "Viera" and twist it so they can play the archetype they prefer. This is why female Miqo'te and female Au Ra reign supreme in terms of popularity. People wanted Miqo'te with bunny ears. But Miqo'te with bunny ears is not Viera. And I would say that this applies to males too.

Meanwhile people are arguing for au ra/elezen with bunny ears and a fixed body. I have not been arguing for this -_- The opposite height ratios would make the race more distinct in my eyes. This is my position.

And by the way, accusing people of being this and that and needing therapy and all that was completely unnecessary. There are other ways to make your point.

I have already edited that out as people have misinterpreted me as talking directly about them when I was only talking about my previous experiences in these discussions on other platforms.
(tho tbh, everyone could use a little therapy. 'Been a rough year)

There are a ton of short male miqote in this game. So the assumption that women are afraid to be taller than them is false. A lot of these so called female miqote and AuRa players you are accusing women of having to be shorter are males irl. I know it’s shocking. That’s sarcasm.

My comments about allowing mid height miqote to tallest fem viera height and doing the same for female viera has to do with people asking for a shorter fem viera and being told no. No one cares if male viera are shorter than them, male miqote are by majority already smaller, what’s the difference?

It seems to me that you are the one with a complex. I think maybe you are looking for any reason to validate short male viera. It’s ok to want that because you like it. It’s not ok to attack other people to try to get what you want.

I'm sorry I'm not parsing that first part I think you might've misinterpreted something I've wrote? Cause, what?
And like I'm not blanket accusing EVERY. SINGLE. PERSON. who has a conclusion of an argument that ends up in one place as the same type of person. So please, I beg you, stop interpreting my personal experiences as that? (it's getting a bit annoying tbh. Like I've said, if something I've said doesn't describe you, then I'm not talking about you.)

And ok, so it's not ok for me to talk about the possibility of someone undefined to have a very common body insecurity and suggest that they find help for them to feel more comfortable because, well, living with that kind of dissonance sucks (and seriously, normalize its existence because the fear that you're alone in thinking that kind of thing can stop you from getting help). BUT! it's ok for you to directly tell me that I have "a complex"? Do I have that right? (Boy, I sure do hope you met the "lol short male viera r 4 pedos/fujoshi/fetishists" crowd with the same attitude) Don't worry I'm used to people lashing out at me and accusing me of random things. But no, my reasons for wanting what I want in this matter isn't directly based on feelings (lower down in the hierarchy, sure, but not immediately) I just think it would suit them better for the reasons I've listed, and find the counterpoints people bring as weak, or could use some workshopping.

[Amnmaat]

You talk about distinctness and uniqueness. Yet your hard-locked male Viera would be a carbon copy of male Miqo'te.
Is your uniqueness argument that sincere?

Instead of hard-locking them to only mirror male Miqo'te why not allow the other side to also allow them to mirror a male Elezen in terms of height? There's nothing unique about making them short, male Miqo'te smiles and says hi to you.

[Haru304]

What I personally think we need is to reduce the size of the female viera too, TBH. I'd love another race of bad ass tribal gals reduced to petite j-idol glam dolls. That'd be great.

[Fukuro]

BUT, I could see a roe being less bulky, an Au Ra being thicker in the waist/thinner in the thighs, (highlanders getting eyebrows) or an elezen... getting a little polish, while also allowing for body type option allowing for scaling of the head and frame to make a more robust height slider seem more natural as a consequence! (Foundations!)

i think yoshi-p already stated they would be better off introducing a new race altogether than allow old races to tweak their bodyparts - since the same process of adjusting gear and what not would be the same as in just introducing a new race altogether.

[Sathona]

What do people gain by preventing males to be taller? All males in XIV are taller than females, as they imitate real life. When creating male Viera it shouldn't follow the Au ra design philosophy. The real topic of discussion is a wide range slider that allows for males to be short like Hyur but also as tall as Elezen or tall in general. Tall male options are very limited. Limited to orc, animal, reptile with horns, and 1 semi normal giraffe. There's no real normal option for us, male Viera would finally be the option for an attractive tall option just like female Viera was an attractive tall female option.

I know there's a lot of RP'rs around or people who want to fetishize being taller than the males but the game isn't played solely by RPrs. A lot of us just want the option to make characters that look like ourselves; on the tall side it's very hard to do that.

excuse me but i wanna know, have u ever stepped outside your man cave?

[Roda]

You talk about distinctness and uniqueness. Yet your hard-locked male Viera would be a carbon copy of male Miqo'te.
Is your uniqueness argument that sincere?

Instead of hard-locking them to only mirror male Miqo'te why not allow the other side to also allow them to mirror a male Elezen in terms of height? There's nothing unique about making them short, male Miqo'te smiles and says hi to you.

I think we have a disagreement of where the uniqueness originates. You seem to be looking at the character models in a vacuum and comparing them without context to the greater design philosophies.
I think my ranges would make the race's design to be unique compared to the other races' designs. The relationship between the males and females, the clans, and the individuals of their respective demographics, vs the same process with every other race, and then taking into consideration the niches that currently exist and seeing where things need to be filled out or polished. Having a race as a whole, have an inverted dimorphism compared to the rest of the established races would make them unique as it would give their culture the option to explore a dynamic we currently haven't seen in game.

And uh, making them mirror elezen wouldn't be unique by your standards either? (Also at my settings they would be taller than male miqo'te with a range of like ~5'9"-6'2" vs male miqo'te being 5'2"-5'8")

i think yoshi-p already stated they would be better off introducing a new race altogether than allow old races to tweak their bodyparts - since the same process of adjusting gear and what not would be the same as in just introducing a new race altogether.

Yeah, but like, I have faith in the dev team to be able to overcome that hurdle lol. Yoshi P has said a lot of things were too hard or impossible when the dev team have turned around and gone "lol nah, here it is" The dude likes to temper expectations which is understandable. But I like to have faith and will understand if something isn't perfect or doesn't work out.
And seeing as they're not adding any more races to the game, this is a perfect time to start exploring the possibility of that feature (well after female hrothgar that is)
ESPECIALLY with the excitement of fat miqo'te that happened. (and yoshiP noticing that people were interested)

[LisSquid]

I don't plan playing it if it is smaller than the female.

This is so objectively funny, I'm so sorry.

[Hunky]

One of the reasons i was supporting the inclusion of male viera so much was because i was waiting for a tall, handsome race to be implemented.
Given that this was the last chance of it ever happening and male viera being still a possibility, i was more than happy to see them introduced to the game.
personally, if they would be shorter (about highlander/miqo height) i‘m not sure i‘d stick with them for too long given the limitations, which my catboy wouldn‘t have and in all honesty, male viera would just have been miqo 2.0
we already have the most popular male races like hyur and miqo‘tes in the lower range of heights (compared to all races). i‘d be more than happy if male viera could bring some popularity to the tall races - which would bring me more diversity all in all in this game instead of just hijacking a race because „we want reverse au ra and this would bring in something new“

Agreed 100%. I think you worded it very well.

People are trying to hijack Viera so we can have "reverse Au Ra" or because it would be "new and interesting". But it really feels like another case of "I want to play Miqo'te with bunny ears." It happened to female Viera, and it'll probably happen to male Viera too.

It would be more revolutionary and unique if we got a handsome, tall male archetype that A) didn't have ridiculously bulky proportions (Roegadyn), B) animal faces (Hrothgar), or C) have tons of scales that cover the face and body with large protruding horns (male Au Ra).

As Amnmaat mentioned, the only "normal", handsome anime protagonist style character that's available for tall males is Elezen, and even then Elezen have proportions that are a little out there. Highlanders are too bulky and definitely don't fit in the pretty boy category.

The thing is, we do want pretty boys, but we want tall pretty boys. And that's in very short supply.

The only other pretty boy types are Midlander and Miqo'te, and they're both short. For those of who want to play a tall pretty boy type, male Viera presents a real opportunity.

Like I mentioned before, it's not like male Viera are going to be huge, hulking masses of muscle like Roegadyn and male Au Ra. A minimum height male Viera would definitely be short enough to please those wanting to play a shorter bunny boy. It's not like you'll be playing as a minimum height Roegadyn where you will still tower over others. As a minimum height male Viera, a lot of things will tower over you. Just not the races that are meant to be shorter than Viera, and that's totally fine.

But pushing to make them as short as Miqo'te so that we can have "reverse Au Ra" and "short cutesy boys because there are so many manly races already", just feels like attempt to hijack a tall race so that people can, just like with female Viera, play "Miqo'te with bunny ears".

But how is making male Viera super short going to improve population diversity? People say how it's going to be unique and different, but it'll just be a repeat of female Au Ra.

When female Au Ra were first designed, they were designed to be tall, muscular, and fierce. Instead, they were changed to be more dainty and petite, akin to female Miqo'te.

And what happened? Female Au Ra became the second most played female race. Now, a huge chunk of the female character population plays either Au Ra or Miqo'te.

If male Viera are made short as Miqo'te, they'll end up being the new female Au Ra.

And where's the diversity in that? How is that revolutionary or unique? If all you're going to end up with is 2-3 races completely dominating the population and further reducing the population of the other races, that's not a win. Everyone knows short races are more popular in this game. If anything, we should continue to push for taller characters so that we can really have a more diverse, interesting population.