Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[LaughingBanana]

There seems to be a disconnect here. If we're talking about "sides", then I am most probably most apt in the "take it easy" side instead of "removing any underperformers immediately out of my sight" side, but even if I am have a very high tolerance of people not performing at the level that they 'should' be, the following is still true:

- Of course I would be annoyed if people couldn't do very basic stuff like dps not doing AOEs or healers only spamming cures in mid or high level dungeons. Heck, Tanks pulling only 3-4 enemies at a time annoy me somewhat too--although this one I tolerate a lot more since I just tend to go with whatever the Tank is most comfortable with and not make a fuss out of it, it's not a big deal. Wall to wall pull do makes me smile when it happens, believe it or not!

- Of course I would be annoyed when people deliberately do stuff like AFK or trolling. Heck more often than not when I encounter players like these it is I who first launch the votekick procedure.

That being said,

- I am really baffled about the "I don't want to be bothered giving feedback" attitude while at the same time bemoaning and lamenting the overall alleged skill deficiencies of the community over and over and over again. Even more, the attitude of "I don't care or don't want to care about your situation, if I see you underperforming I won't ask why I would just simply try to remove you"--I am just a bit surprised at such callous disregard to this thing called "empathy" towards other people.

- Related to the above, I find it extremely hard to believe that "people giving feedback to players" are in any danger of getting their account nuked by Square. I don't believe this at all. I've spent thousands of hours playing this game and I gave and receive feedback when things got out of hand very often and not a single time I got thrown in the Gaol or even receive a warning. This is probably because I favor to communicate with other players in a reasonable and measured manner, even when I'm pissed off at them.

- Yes, as Alxyzntlc mentioned above, the conversation has seemingly moved on to this ridiculous notion that there are a strata of players (the "elite") that must be "protected" at all cost from all other players they deem insufficient to be playing together with them. This, I just simply couldn't wrap my head around in. And yes, before in this thread I specifically asked these types of players to talk in a more practical manner: what needs actually to be done to satisfy you all? Because talking about how the "community" is "enabling" the alleged "toxic casualism" without offering any concrete way to deal with the situation is just in the end empty talk that will get to nowhere. What should be done to improve the situation?

[Caurcas]

Solutions have been proffered in this thread though.

[Wasselin]

- I am really baffled about the "I don't want to be bothered giving feedback" attitude while at the same time bemoaning and lamenting the overall alleged skill deficiencies of the community over and over and over again. Even more, the attitude of "I don't care or don't want to care about your situation, if I see you underperforming I won't ask why I would just simply try to remove you"--I am just a bit surprised at such callous disregard to this thing called "empathy" towards other people.

I think a lot of this is because people like to feel superior. Bemoaning how they are the only skilled player in a sea of players who just aren't as good as they are, is just a way to boost their own ego and self-esteem.

I can't think of any other reason that you would care that much about encountering people who aren't "performing" in a random duty.

[Nethereal]

I think a lot of this is because people like to feel superior. Bemoaning how they are the only skilled player in a sea of players who just aren't as good as they are, is just a way to boost their own ego and self-esteem.

I can't think of any other reason that you would care that much about encountering people who aren't "performing" in a random duty.

In a world where performing = faster = less time wasted = more time for me to do other things.

There are a few reasons people care about random people who aren't performing(outside the goodness of their heart, bless their soul) but the main thing is that it's a time thing.
In terms of pf you can actually join parties and kind of have a grasp on how much time you're going to spend doing something and how many times you can do it so it's kind of irrelevant.

In terms of roulette though where it's totally random a large fault actually lies in the rewards being given. In most roulettes the reward fits the tax, you generally know how long something is going to take and if you can actually succeed in doing it.
Some roulettes however do not have a suitable reward for the tax at hand.
For instance getting "The Praetorium" from mentor roulette, the dungeon has 30 minutes of cutscenes and 20 minutes of combat and I'm just here for the clear and the leavers punishment is 30 minutes...

I think we can safely say for the most part the majority of players have at least reached level 80 on one job and aren't totally new/fresh and we can also assume that a majority of those people who have level 80 jobs aren't running roulettes on their level 80 job for the content but the reward from the roulette. Now lets say you're doing a roulette for the rewards and you get into a dungeon and these 3 other random factors(scrubs/newbs) are doing some if maybe 1 of the following:

• dying to dumb shit
• not holding aggro
• not doing AoEs(if they have any)
• breaking their combos

Well there goes anywhere between 3-10 minutes of my life because you can't do basic content.
Now if it's really bad like for instance Titania normal mode(once joined a 40 minutes in progress) the one you do for msq you can waste anywhere from 10 minutes to the full duration of the trial with nothing to show for it and all you wanted was the roulette reward which is basically nothing because trials/raids should only take anywhere between 10-20 minutes.

Now this doesn't all sound bad yet I mean it's only happened once and you're playing a game to waste your time anyway so what's the big deal? It adds up. Eventually you'll have wasted so much total time you'll have enough time to have done that dungeon twice over. Now it's normal to waste time in a game in fact that's the purpose but it's the pointlessness of the time wasted that gets people.
To most people a roulette is just a chore, something you do daily for the rewards, they don't care if you're new or don't understand how to play your class, or generally just bad. To them you're in the way of them finishing their roulette, you're in the way of their schedule, their free time and for what? Because you don't know how to do simple mechanics? Because you're bad? In team games where you're only as strong as your weakest link you really shouldn't force/entice one factor to play with another factor.

All in all only being able to earn tomes reasonably through roulettes(using 3rd party programs is not as convenient as duty finder) a daily mechanic that forces you to group up with other players is bound to have the same problems presented with all things related to the human condition. For most I would say the moment you no longer need what the roulette is offering is the moment you never touch it again, realistically you won't be able to change the human condition so if you want to mitigate bm in roulettes you need to stop making it so people who only go into them for rewards do them, which they won't because that would kill the content, and the human condition will never change so I guess we're just at a impasse.

I don't know how many people think like this but if we were to generalize it all it would look something like this: Random people who waste an excessive amount of your time are the enemy of your enjoyment.

Edit: Honestly when it comes to roulette people should be rewarded for their personal performance not their participation. It would encourage players to get better and nobody would care if you took a little longer.

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

I think a lot of this is because people like to feel superior. Bemoaning how they are the only skilled player in a sea of players who just aren't as good as they are, is just a way to boost their own ego and self-esteem.

I can't think of any other reason that you would care that much about encountering people who aren't "performing" in a random duty.

Or it's the fact this is a team-based game and people should not have to be forced to drag lazy or entitled players who refuse to improve or learn the basics of their job, through content said player otherwise could not clear due to how they adamantly stomp their feet at the notion of playing properly.

I give advice where I can, as politely as I can - especially to newbies. But there is an undeniable culture of enabling and selfishness, when most of my attempts to advise people about a class I know well and play well is met with "shut up, I don't care". Or on the extreme end, griefing in the form of no longer healing, or not using AoEs to keep mob aggro so they can get me killed, etc.

I have rarely met an 'elite' player who was as outwardly toxic and aggressive as most of the casualists I run into.

Note: casualist. Not casual.

There is a clear difference - as I myself could be considered casual. I don't raid anymore and don't have the time nor energy to devote to a static right now, I only get a few hours a day to play at best outside of the weekends. Sometimes I won't even play because I'm exhausted from work and would prefer to not have to deal with the rancid community of this game on top of it while trying to do content I otherwise find very fun.