Quote Originally Posted by Rinhi View Post
because people have no counter argument to that and have to strawman and make up excuses for just this
absolutely no one in this thread was complaining about people making avoidable mistakes here and there - no, it was about people not knowing and refusing to learn how to play their classes
Or maybe the reason no one is arguing it is because there's nothing to argue. It's all just blowing smoke same as the argument that just trying to help gets you reported and banned. Are there terrible players in DF? Absolutely, but they're not there in any where near the sort of numbers that a handful of players say they are. The tsunami sized all consuming waves of bads and leechers just don't exist outside of in the imagination of some players. If I told you there was a 5 armed blue alien in my kitchen that loves to make spaghetti but turns invisible when anyone but me looks at it would you debate me on it or would you just roll your eyes and walk away?

If all you are looking for is average players who basically understand their jobs, then I'd wager the vast majority of players already fit that bill. And, as has been gone over many, many times before, the game doesn't demand more than that in every day average casual content. Could/should it demand more? Sure. But it doesn't.