Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Tactical]

people out here REALLY be like,
"this community isn't obligated to help anyone"
"i don't offer help to people at all"
"quietly kicking people out of my runs is okay and reasonable"

and then go,
"this community is toxic! not helpful at all!"
"grrr newbies bad, time to complain in forums instead of doing anything about it"
"people are KNOWINGLY playing bad on purpose! (source: dude trust me)"

With that being said, I wonder if any significant portion of the playerbase do post in these forums, let alone read these threads.

[ZedxKayn]

people out here REALLY be like,
"this community isn't obligated to help anyone"
"i don't offer help to people at all"
"quietly kicking people out of my runs is okay and reasonable"

and then go,
"this community is toxic! not helpful at all!"
"grrr newbies bad, time to complain in forums instead of doing anything about it"
"people are KNOWINGLY playing bad on purpose! (source: dude trust me)"

With that being said, I wonder if any significant portion of the playerbase do post in these forums, let alone read these threads.

When trying to help can result in bans, it's hard to blame their frustration.

[Ammokkx]

When trying to help can result in bans, it's hard to blame their frustration.

I help people plenty and the only time I've eaten a ban was on the forums for, and I quote, telling a guy to "stop being a bitch". which, yeah, I did kinda have that one coming to me.

[StriderShinryu]

When trying to help can result in bans, it's hard to blame their frustration.

I hear this so often here. How often does this actually happen and when did it happen last? What exactly was said and done that was reported? How often have you personally been reported and banned or warned after giving advice?

[Saefinn]

I hear this so often here. How often does this actually happen and when did it happen last? What exactly was said and done that was reported? How often have you personally been reported and banned or warned after giving advice?

This is what I wanna know too, after 8 years of being helpful, I've yet to run into any problems like this. I've had a handful of poor attitude people and that's it.

It's why I get the feeling it's more down to a how and not a what. Because normally I find those who aren't very constructive or are rude or put people down tend not to think what they do is any of that.

And it'd be very odd for GM's to moderate people for helping people when the devs are introduced a whole system designed with the intention of helping people and encouraging people to help others...granted it's a broken system but either way, it's intended for helping people.

[Penthea]

This is what I wanna know too, after 8 years of being helpful, I've yet to run into any problems like this. I've had a handful of poor attitude people and that's it.

It's why I get the feeling it's more down to a how and not a what. Because normally I find those who aren't very constructive or are rude or put people down tend not to think what they do is any of that.

And it'd be very odd for GM's to moderate people for helping people when the devs are introduced a whole system designed with the intention of helping people and encouraging people to help others...granted it's a broken system but either way, it's intended for helping people.

The bolded part is why I'm disinclined to believe stuff like "you can get banned for telling someone to refresh their dots!". If SE did not want strangers to give advice on how to play they wouldn't have created the mentor system. Having the crown doesn't magically make you immune to any sort of punishment. It's not a get out of jail card.

I've seen some people say "I was only trying to help" when their idea of help was "omfg you need to stack not stand in China". Sure that's telling the person they need to stack, but it's far from being a polite way to put it. I've had to tell quite a few people to do basic things like turn on tank stance and I have managed to avoid punishment even when the player didn't take the advice/request well. You're not going to get in trouble with a GM for saying "please turn on tank stance" or "we need both dps to do aoe".

[Saefinn]

The bolded part is why I'm disinclined to believe stuff like "you can get banned for telling someone to refresh their dots!". If SE did not want strangers to give advice on how to play they wouldn't have created the mentor system. Having the crown doesn't magically make you immune to any sort of punishment. It's not a get out of jail card.

I've seen some people say "I was only trying to help" when their idea of help was "omfg you need to stack not stand in China". Sure that's telling the person they need to stack, but it's far from being a polite way to put it. I've had to tell quite a few people to do basic things like turn on tank stance and I have managed to avoid punishment even when the player didn't take the advice/request well. You're not going to get in trouble with a GM for saying "please turn on tank stance" or "we need both dps to do aoe".

I often feel like this is the difference for sure and is my experience of it.

Heck, going on my handling customer complaints experience when I used to work complaints:
- Nice customer on the phone, they have a complaint about how any agent dealt with them, the customer had only sought service and weren't rude about it, but the agent was rude and unhelpful. And the situation is painted as to how they're reasonable and did nothing wrong, but the agent was probably having a bad day or something but is in the wrong.
- Then I listen back to the call and the customer is very rude and nasty.

Or the reverse of that, before I worked complaints:
- Customer calls up giving me and one of the engineers literal death threats.
- Customer later gets through to complaints after I cancelled their engineer visit (because, yes, I'm gonna send an engineer to your house you said you made death threats about), the person who took the call said they were sweet as anything, they listened back to the call and were shocked at the contrast.

I'd say "maybe it has made me jaded and that's just customer service Karens/Kyles", but then we see people with ERP venues post here after being moderated omitting the fact they're selling ERP when complaining their RP advertisements have ended up giving them strikes and it seems the same old story. I've seen complaint thread appear here before that were also like that.


When people want to complain about a situation, they omit anything that places them as the point of wrong doing or looking bad and the one on the receiving end is the bad guy and surprised Pikachu face that action was taken against them.

So when people report they've been wrongly moderated, whilst I accept the possibility, my default is almost always going to be "this is only one side of the story".

Oh please, if you have questions, ask in the chat
That the game is not available in your language? use a translator or join dozens of groups in your language about the game and look for a FC that supports you on your journey as many do.

Do you have any psychological or perhaps physical problems such as some kind of disability? TELL ME, I don't have to guess and I don't have to know that you have a problem, if you tell me perfect I understand you and I will support you as best I can.

A lot of disabilities tend to be sensitive topics and often not anybody's business either. Should people be telling the world they're disabled to avoid people calling them bad gamers? Especially, as let's face it, a lot of people aren't good about disabilities and can kinda be s***y about it?

And then we end up getting people who'll use the line without being disabled, then people will catch on and not believe people who really are...because that already happens in the real world, especially when it comes to psychological ones.

I just prefer people to just say if they're unsure of anything.

[Nayout]

A lot of disabilities tend to be sensitive topics and often not anybody's business either. Should people be telling the world they're disabled to avoid people calling them bad gamers? Especially, as let's face it, a lot of people aren't good about disabilities and can kinda be s***y about it?

And then we end up getting people who'll use the line without being disabled, then people will catch on and not believe people who really are...because that already happens in the real world, especially when it comes to psychological ones.

I just prefer people to just say if they're unsure of anything.

Well, you will have to arm yourself with the courage to say it or something because I have to know and not guess if you have a problem which makes you unable to play your role in a dungeon or you cannot respond to what they write to you.

I do not have to know your problems and if your performance in the dungeon prevents it from being done in an equitable way between 4 players I will kick you because it is not my work to be a fortune teller. That people would abuse in the future? Well unfortunate, I will worry when it happens.

[ZedxKayn]

I hear this so often here. How often does this actually happen and when did it happen last? What exactly was said and done that was reported? How often have you personally been reported and banned or warned after giving advice?

Well I wouldn't know, I'm not a GM.

I already get griefed enough as is, I don't risk opening my mouth when I see mistakes.

[LittleImp]

I hear this so often here. How often does this actually happen and when did it happen last? What exactly was said and done that was reported? How often have you personally been reported and banned or warned after giving advice?

I track a lot of ban cases, and while there're a lot of ridiculous cases where people get banned for unbelievably stupid things, I've never personally heard of this happening. Usually when there are supposed cases, the person who was 'helping' was actually being kind of abusive.

However, in said cases I'm familiar with, the person who did the reporting was often also being abusive first. It usually plays out like, Person A gives advice. Person B, who is receiving the advice, responds abusively or with snark. Person A insults them back, is reported and struck/banned.
Recently someone I know was banned for calling someone in Emerald EX an idiot for not having his class quest abilities unlocked and being snarky about it.

It's less about real ban cases, and more about a feeling of imminent pressure or danger people who give advice end up feeling. I've never been GM jailed or banned, but I've been threatened with reports by people I was giving neutral advice to. Whether or not I genuinely think I have a chance of getting banned, this kind of response still has a negative chilling effect on my willingness to help others.