Criticism of Shadowbringers and the hostility there in

[Manuka]

I don't think it's so much we're getting significantly less content, its more that for w/e reason they've decided to allocate more resources to large scale projects that don't pay off or have any longevity to them ie. Eureka, Diadem 1.0/2.0, Bozja etc. instead of smaller scale things where they can recycle assets to a degree.

Lets use Eureka for example. It was the flagship side content in Stormblood that added four sprawling new zones to traverse. It had its own unique leveling experience that integrated an entirely separate combat system that needed to be coded and balanced for, in addition a whole suite of notorious monsters with their own triggers and mechanics to be dealt with. But that's also the problem, what is the payoff for all this effort? A bunch of glamour gear, basically. That's a tough sell to get players to leave the core-grind to do this side-grind, especially if their game time is limited. As tedious as the 2.0/3.0 relics were, it was at least integrated within the content you already were doing so it was always something you could passively work towards. And most importantly, it actually populated the world by getting people to revisit things. Like just imagine for a second that rather than putting all those resources into Eureka, they completely overhauled the current Hunt system to integrate all those NMs and triggers across the existing zones, balanced logograms as a fun overworld feature where their effectiveness is based upon a separate Hunt level system that could be updated as new expansions get added? In my case I might have actually finished my Stormblood relic.

[BlitzAceRush]

I don't think it's so much we're getting significantly less content, its more that for w/e reason they've decided to allocate more resources to large scale projects that don't pay off or have any longevity to them ie. Eureka, Diadem 1.0/2.0, Bozja etc. instead of smaller scale things where they can recycle assets to a degree.

Lets use Eureka for example. It was the flagship side content in Stormblood that added four sprawling new zones to traverse. It had its own unique leveling experience that integrated an entirely separate combat system that needed to be coded and balanced for, in addition a whole suite of notorious monsters with their own triggers and mechanics to be dealt with. But that's also the problem, what is the payoff for all this effort? A bunch of glamour gear, basically. That's a tough sell to get players to leave the core-grind to do this side-grind, especially if their game time is limited. As tedious as the 2.0/3.0 relics were, it was at least integrated within the content you already were doing so it was always something you could passively work towards. And most importantly, it actually populated the world by getting people to revisit things. Like just imagine for a second that rather than putting all those resources into Eureka, they completely overhauled the current Hunt system to integrate all those NMs and triggers across the existing zones, balanced logograms as a fun overworld feature where their effectiveness is based upon a separate Hunt level system that could be updated as new expansions get added? In my case I might have actually finished my Stormblood relic.

Then there's the reverse, I never finished a HW or ARR relic, did finish my Stormblood one though, I hated a lot of things about Eureka but I vastly enjoyed it more than what came before. Some people want a piece of content that lasts ages, others appreciate that they can finish content quickly or come back later and have many quick entry points to catch back up.
Neither are wrong, just different preferences and you'll never please everyone, take your idea for example, sounds fun, until you realize that the feature most complained about outside of the "How dare you tie the relic to this!" was "but it's just fates again!" I like the NM and fates in Eureka, but taking that system, and combining it with hunts as opposed to Eureka would have still garnered those complaints just with the added ones of those who didn't want to do hunts, the logograms would have also been a nightmare in the openworld to make work, people hated needing sap for Ixion and it was a single item not a choice of 50 skills.

14 is a game built around short term power and cosmetics, to some it's a flaw, to others, a strength, but that doesn't make content a waste, I could say the same about Ultimate, I don't do it and what good is it for? A title and a shiny weapon? Get that out of here, let's use those resources for something better! But no, some people really like it and that's all the reason it really needs to exist in a theme park, so long as the devs feel it was cost effective, they'll make it.

[ZedxKayn]

14 is a game built around short term power and cosmetics, to some it's a flaw, to others, a strength, but that doesn't make content a waste, I could say the same about Ultimate, I don't do it and what good is it for? A title and a shiny weapon? Get that out of here, let's use those resources for something better! But no, some people really like it and that's all the reason it really needs to exist in a theme park, so long as the devs feel it was cost effective, they'll make it.

How engaging the content is is in my opinion the core of the problem.
You have video games with much less to do in that are a lot more fun because the activities in it are more engaging because it requires players to think.
And much of the content we've been getting is a lot more boring than engaging.
The decreased amount of new dungeons we've been getting have also been hitting like wet noodles, Ishgard fêtes are somehow less engaging than gathering low level mats on ilv 490+ gear, the events have been lackluster and fused together.
This is surely cost effective, but is it good? It's difficult to get something both cheap AND high quality...

We had 4 dungeons in the expert roulette in 5.1, and while they were still a breeze, without a doubt they were still more difficult than what we currently have,we just have half of that now.
An ultimate was cut.
The deep dungeon was cut (the worst part imo)
Bozja requires less from the player than Eureka did (FATEs and CEs spawn by themselves and the former are really the same as what you could find outside of Bozja in the OW: "bullet sponges" that pose no threat), and the only addition made to Bozja after it's release was DB and that's it, no new zones, no new CEs.
Hell the 60->70 for BLU is also so much more incredibly barebone compared to 50->60, I was done with it in within the first couple days of the patch and it's not like I focused on it.

I do a bit of everything aside the story, and honestly, I'm not seeing the cut content being given back in a meaningful way.

And yeah, that's the point: regardless of how I feel about low replayability, low engagement content, I'd much rather have SE give us back the money we're spending on their game in both new, less involved content and new, more involved content than just cut so much combat content, the finger has to be pointed at SE for being greedy and not funding their cashcow enough.

[Vahlnir]

Bozja requires less from the player than Eureka did (FATEs and CEs spawn by themselves and the former are really the same as what you could find outside of Bozja in the OW: "bullet sponges" that pose no threat

You are slightly incorrect here. Some CEs (basically, the only fun "Fates" in the place to begin with lol) require completing certain Fates before they can spawn, and a couple of which need to be triggered manually by talking to an NPC.

[Lord_Umbra]

I don't think it's so much we're getting significantly less content, its more that for w/e reason they've decided to allocate more resources to large scale projects that don't pay off or have any longevity to them ie. Eureka, Diadem 1.0/2.0, Bozja etc. instead of smaller scale things where they can recycle assets to a degree.

Lets use Eureka for example. It was the flagship side content in Stormblood that added four sprawling new zones to traverse. It had its own unique leveling experience that integrated an entirely separate combat system that needed to be coded and balanced for, in addition a whole suite of notorious monsters with their own triggers and mechanics to be dealt with. But that's also the problem, what is the payoff for all this effort? A bunch of glamour gear, basically. That's a tough sell to get players to leave the core-grind to do this side-grind, especially if their game time is limited. As tedious as the 2.0/3.0 relics were, it was at least integrated within the content you already were doing so it was always something you could passively work towards. And most importantly, it actually populated the world by getting people to revisit things. Like just imagine for a second that rather than putting all those resources into Eureka, they completely overhauled the current Hunt system to integrate all those NMs and triggers across the existing zones, balanced logograms as a fun overworld feature where their effectiveness is based upon a separate Hunt level system that could be updated as new expansions get added? In my case I might have actually finished my Stormblood relic.

Except Eureka was noted by devs as being more popular than they though it would be with only Pagos being the real downer, Bozja also still has mass participation I've had no problems getting CLL or DR runs & most SFs are still filled constantly even quite filled during off peak hours. Diadem is only real failure out 3 you mention other two did/are doing great.

If we could see Relic numbers for time when they were relevant you'd probably find more of the community have a Eureka/Bozja Relic then what did the Zodiac/Anima when they were relevant.

[Manuka]

Except Eureka was noted by devs as being more popular than they though it would be with only Pagos being the real downer, Bozja also still has mass participation I've had no problems getting CLL or DR runs & most SFs are still filled constantly even quite filled during off peak hours. Diadem is only real failure out 3 you mention other two did/are doing great.

If we could see Relic numbers for time when they were relevant you'd probably find more of the community have a Eureka/Bozja Relic then what did the Zodiac/Anima when they were relevant.

I'm not saying it wasn't decently populated back when it was relevant. But is it now? Recently I had to complete the Eureka story because they annoyingly locked a triple triad NPC behind it. During my week-long grind the most players I seen in the zone was around 26, the lowest was 3 and the average sat around 15 I'm estimating. The content is basically dead and it's only going to get worse because this content is never going to get updated or changed. At least with my hunt example, it would still provide a universal currency that could be spent on stuff that is still relevant, meaning people would still have an incentive to do the older relics. There will likely never be a reason to go back to Eureka because it's insulated from the rest of the content. Only way I can see them getting those numbers back up is by nerfing the content so hard you could 4-man BA. But even then it would only be a short-term gain that again would die off in time.

Which goes back to the point I was making, they keep putting so much resources into content that doesn't have lasting appeal/can't be updated or is left in a half-complete state and abandoned. The Firmament is an example of good-design, you have what's effectively a crafter and gather hub with a unique zone for them to collect specialized materials and earn experience and currency to buy collectables and consumables that will always be in-demand (dyes). And most importantly, its organized in such a way that come EW they can just add in 80-90 turn-ins and new rewards to keep it relevant at little resource cost. Compare that to Squadrons, what was the point of them? Right now they're just manual dispensers and have been made redundant thanks to Trusts. Why have have two systems that effectively do the same thing, just move the Squadrons to the Rising Stones and unify it with the Trust system.

As for Relic numbers, I'm not sure. The closest you could get to some census is from FFXIV Collect, and there it shows that complete ARR/HW Relics on average sit around %10~12, while complete Eureka Relics sit around ~%5 on average and Bozja is around %3~4. Granted Bozja is still current so might not be fair to compare.