Criticism of Shadowbringers and the hostility there in

[GeminiReed]

FFXIV gives more content per year then any other MMO I've ever played and I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online. That includes WoW and SWTOR back when they were purely sub based. The amount of content in this game is overwhelming to the point that I actually think it is impossible for someone to get all achievements in the game and every couple of months they add more content.

MMO's are "something for everybody" not "that shalt consume the whole buffet". That said "more" is a relative term. Do they produce more than SW:TOR? Of course they do but that's not exactly a high bar (far closer to extreme limbo). But I will agree that their content production is near enough to Best in Class. The question is are they being graded on a curve? Are they producing enough of the right content?

I've exhausted what I could do solo and the number of friends that have been logging in lately has been shrinking. Bozja didn't quite cut it.

[demonofelru]

MMO's are "something for everybody" not "that shalt consume the whole buffet". That said "more" is a relative term. Do they produce more than SW:TOR? Of course they do but that's not exactly a high bar (far closer to extreme limbo). But I will agree that their content production is near enough to Best in Class. The question is are they being graded on a curve? Are they producing enough of the right content?

I've exhausted what I could do solo and the number of friends that have been logging in lately has been shrinking. Bozja didn't quite cut it.

This is the problem. The issue isn't that there isn't content, it's there isn't enough of the content you like. Those aren't really the same thing. All the content is high quality and as someone who enjoys all the content and participates in all the content, I feel there is more then enough quality content.

Objectively though, anyone who says this game doesn't have enough quality content is being disingenuous.

[Nayout]

Your link proves my point. We get more content in each major FFXIV patch then what it shows for the WoW patches you posted. Not sure what your point was?

Yes we get less content now per patch than we did last year, but covid was a thing that slowed their work, so some patches were delayed and some content was cut. Even with that, we still got more content per patch this year then WoW got in the patch you posted.

To break it down, for the WoW post:

Sept - Dec 2013 (4 month period)
5.4.0 - 1 raid, 1 raid difficulty mode, 1 new area, Connected Realms (essentially shard visit functionality)
5.4.0 hotfix1 - Bug Fixes
5.4.0 hotfix 2 - Bug Fixes
5.4.1 - Some pets, a mount and some bug fixes
5.4.2 - Ability to mail account bound items across servers, In-game shop (RMT shop), cross-realm raid finder improvements, pet, bug fixes
5.4.2 hotfix 1 - bug fixes
5.4.7 - Level Boost UI, PvP changes, ilvl boost of the new area from 5.4.0

90% of the stuff added was pets or bug fixes... not real impressive

FFXIV (3 month period) Dec 2020 - Feb 2021
5.4 - https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...8c2f1094131070
5.41 - https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...0223422d86935a
5.45 - https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...a2070ed1b8e41b

I'll let you go through the extensive amount of content that was added in those 3 major patches.

Thank you for showing that you have no idea what you are talking about, unlike you I played all the Pandaria and FFXIV patches and I know perfectly the content that has been in the two games. And it's funny how the FFXIV tries to fill the "content" of the patches with cosmetics and mounts when the Wow never mentioned reputations or mounts like the ones you could get on the Timeless Isle in the patches.

It's funny how they try to sell you again as new content a quest chain that you complete in 30 minutes or surprisingly small updates like Mahjong.

[Vahlnir]

Your link proves my point. We get more content in each major FFXIV patch then what it shows for the WoW patches you posted. Not sure what your point was?

Yes we get less content now per patch than we did last year, but covid was a thing that slowed their work, so some patches were delayed and some content was cut. Even with that, we still got more content per patch this year then WoW got in the patch you posted.

To break it down, for the WoW post:

Sept - Dec 2013 (4 month period)
5.4.0 - 1 raid, 1 raid difficulty mode, 1 new area, Connected Realms (essentially shard visit functionality)
5.4.0 hotfix1 - Bug Fixes
5.4.0 hotfix 2 - Bug Fixes
5.4.1 - Some pets, a mount and some bug fixes
5.4.2 - Ability to mail account bound items across servers, In-game shop (RMT shop), cross-realm raid finder improvements, pet, bug fixes
5.4.2 hotfix 1 - bug fixes
5.4.7 - Level Boost UI, PvP changes, ilvl boost of the new area from 5.4.0

90% of the stuff added was pets or bug fixes... not real impressive

FFXIV (3 month period) Dec 2020 - Feb 2021
5.4 - https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...8c2f1094131070
5.41 - https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...0223422d86935a
5.45 - https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...a2070ed1b8e41b

I'll let you go through the extensive amount of content that was added in those 3 major patches.

Trying to compare WoW in 2013 to FF XIV now wasn't the best way to go about it, considering that was the last time WoW was actually good and FF XIV had only just begun its climb (again). How about you compare current WoW to current FF XIV? That might help your case, even if it's only a little bit. Using old numbers to try and prove your point isn't a good look. FF XIV was JUST being re-released around the time you are pulling these WoW numbers from.

[Nayout]

I also played WoW during Pandaria. You provided links to prove your point. I literally pulled my data directly from the link you provided. I pulled a 4 month period from WoW and compared it to a 3 month period in FFXIV during Shadowbringers, since that is the expansion being discussed as having less content.

PVE:
-Siege of Ogrimar 14 Boss Raid
-Timeless Isle 5 Open World Boss
-Timeless Isle New Zone
-Proving Grounds

PVE:
-Eden Promise 4 Boss Raid
-Emerald 1 Boss
-Delubrum Reginae 5 Boss Raid
-Matoya Relic Dungeon
-Blue Mage level cap
-Titan Unreal 1 boss
-Map Dungeon

?:
New Route in Ocean Fishing
Explorer Mode (this as content is like calling selfie camera patch content in Wow)

The two games in their patches receive updates with quest chain or updates on systems or fixes, naming them does not make sense as the quest chain of Wrathion or Save the Queen.

[Manuka]

I don't think it's so much we're getting significantly less content, its more that for w/e reason they've decided to allocate more resources to large scale projects that don't pay off or have any longevity to them ie. Eureka, Diadem 1.0/2.0, Bozja etc. instead of smaller scale things where they can recycle assets to a degree.

Lets use Eureka for example. It was the flagship side content in Stormblood that added four sprawling new zones to traverse. It had its own unique leveling experience that integrated an entirely separate combat system that needed to be coded and balanced for, in addition a whole suite of notorious monsters with their own triggers and mechanics to be dealt with. But that's also the problem, what is the payoff for all this effort? A bunch of glamour gear, basically. That's a tough sell to get players to leave the core-grind to do this side-grind, especially if their game time is limited. As tedious as the 2.0/3.0 relics were, it was at least integrated within the content you already were doing so it was always something you could passively work towards. And most importantly, it actually populated the world by getting people to revisit things. Like just imagine for a second that rather than putting all those resources into Eureka, they completely overhauled the current Hunt system to integrate all those NMs and triggers across the existing zones, balanced logograms as a fun overworld feature where their effectiveness is based upon a separate Hunt level system that could be updated as new expansions get added? In my case I might have actually finished my Stormblood relic.

[BlitzAceRush]

I don't think it's so much we're getting significantly less content, its more that for w/e reason they've decided to allocate more resources to large scale projects that don't pay off or have any longevity to them ie. Eureka, Diadem 1.0/2.0, Bozja etc. instead of smaller scale things where they can recycle assets to a degree.

Lets use Eureka for example. It was the flagship side content in Stormblood that added four sprawling new zones to traverse. It had its own unique leveling experience that integrated an entirely separate combat system that needed to be coded and balanced for, in addition a whole suite of notorious monsters with their own triggers and mechanics to be dealt with. But that's also the problem, what is the payoff for all this effort? A bunch of glamour gear, basically. That's a tough sell to get players to leave the core-grind to do this side-grind, especially if their game time is limited. As tedious as the 2.0/3.0 relics were, it was at least integrated within the content you already were doing so it was always something you could passively work towards. And most importantly, it actually populated the world by getting people to revisit things. Like just imagine for a second that rather than putting all those resources into Eureka, they completely overhauled the current Hunt system to integrate all those NMs and triggers across the existing zones, balanced logograms as a fun overworld feature where their effectiveness is based upon a separate Hunt level system that could be updated as new expansions get added? In my case I might have actually finished my Stormblood relic.

Then there's the reverse, I never finished a HW or ARR relic, did finish my Stormblood one though, I hated a lot of things about Eureka but I vastly enjoyed it more than what came before. Some people want a piece of content that lasts ages, others appreciate that they can finish content quickly or come back later and have many quick entry points to catch back up.
Neither are wrong, just different preferences and you'll never please everyone, take your idea for example, sounds fun, until you realize that the feature most complained about outside of the "How dare you tie the relic to this!" was "but it's just fates again!" I like the NM and fates in Eureka, but taking that system, and combining it with hunts as opposed to Eureka would have still garnered those complaints just with the added ones of those who didn't want to do hunts, the logograms would have also been a nightmare in the openworld to make work, people hated needing sap for Ixion and it was a single item not a choice of 50 skills.

14 is a game built around short term power and cosmetics, to some it's a flaw, to others, a strength, but that doesn't make content a waste, I could say the same about Ultimate, I don't do it and what good is it for? A title and a shiny weapon? Get that out of here, let's use those resources for something better! But no, some people really like it and that's all the reason it really needs to exist in a theme park, so long as the devs feel it was cost effective, they'll make it.

[ZedxKayn]

14 is a game built around short term power and cosmetics, to some it's a flaw, to others, a strength, but that doesn't make content a waste, I could say the same about Ultimate, I don't do it and what good is it for? A title and a shiny weapon? Get that out of here, let's use those resources for something better! But no, some people really like it and that's all the reason it really needs to exist in a theme park, so long as the devs feel it was cost effective, they'll make it.

How engaging the content is is in my opinion the core of the problem.
You have video games with much less to do in that are a lot more fun because the activities in it are more engaging because it requires players to think.
And much of the content we've been getting is a lot more boring than engaging.
The decreased amount of new dungeons we've been getting have also been hitting like wet noodles, Ishgard fêtes are somehow less engaging than gathering low level mats on ilv 490+ gear, the events have been lackluster and fused together.
This is surely cost effective, but is it good? It's difficult to get something both cheap AND high quality...

We had 4 dungeons in the expert roulette in 5.1, and while they were still a breeze, without a doubt they were still more difficult than what we currently have,we just have half of that now.
An ultimate was cut.
The deep dungeon was cut (the worst part imo)
Bozja requires less from the player than Eureka did (FATEs and CEs spawn by themselves and the former are really the same as what you could find outside of Bozja in the OW: "bullet sponges" that pose no threat), and the only addition made to Bozja after it's release was DB and that's it, no new zones, no new CEs.
Hell the 60->70 for BLU is also so much more incredibly barebone compared to 50->60, I was done with it in within the first couple days of the patch and it's not like I focused on it.

I do a bit of everything aside the story, and honestly, I'm not seeing the cut content being given back in a meaningful way.

And yeah, that's the point: regardless of how I feel about low replayability, low engagement content, I'd much rather have SE give us back the money we're spending on their game in both new, less involved content and new, more involved content than just cut so much combat content, the finger has to be pointed at SE for being greedy and not funding their cashcow enough.

[Vahlnir]

Bozja requires less from the player than Eureka did (FATEs and CEs spawn by themselves and the former are really the same as what you could find outside of Bozja in the OW: "bullet sponges" that pose no threat

You are slightly incorrect here. Some CEs (basically, the only fun "Fates" in the place to begin with lol) require completing certain Fates before they can spawn, and a couple of which need to be triggered manually by talking to an NPC.

[linayar]

I really love when people say just unsubscribe or when Yoshi P says hey you don’t have to play this game 24/7 you can unsubscribe and play something else. Yet, because of their horrible housing system, you literally cannot stay unsunbbed for more than 30 days if you want to keep your house lmao. It’s such a contradiction to that statement. So in regards to your “they stopped veteran rewards because they didn’t want people to have to subscribe for a long time to earn rewards”, yeah no. They still hold people to their sub because of housing.

Sorry, but housing is irrelevant. If you care enough about it to keep subscribing, then obviously it's worth your money.

So, if you don't play the game enough to subscribe, but you'll subscribe anyway because of housing, that's your issue. Get an apartment/FC room and let someone who actually wants to log in every month get a chance at a house.

Either way, I'm not dictating what you will spend your money on, but if it's because of housing, then that's your decision to make, so live with the consequence of that decision.

As for veteran rewards though i don’t think that’s even the reason they gave. Pretty sure they said it’s because they couldn’t figure out what to actually give us as veteran rewards anymore(which is pretty funny because they can come up with mogstation items perfectly fine hm?).

I could be wrong, but the Online Store is exactly why I don't think lack of idea is the reason.