Monks need a projectile!

[acceleratedben]

DRG is all about it's jumps, it should be the king of gap closers.
Worst gap closer goes to Ninja.

Ah yes, job fantasy in a gameplay/balance thread..

Drg jumps are normally way too important for your dps rotation to hold for gapclosing purposes. Elusive jump is the worst gapcloser of all meeles by far. (Yes, i've noticed you put "should" in italic, but i felt the need to mention it since you apparently have no clue what you're talking about)

Shukuchi is arguably the best meele gap closer by far! It's always available, since it doesn't have to be used in a burst window and is omnidirectional, pixelperfect, without needing a target. The value of it is just insane. (without costing a resource)

Not only is it extremely good for your own uptime, it can also help teammates get more uptime without sacrifice of own dps (for example, shiva junction, being in a light party with a tank that wants to dash in without sliding) and is one of the best tools to save messed up mechanics/entire pulls.

[wereotter]

Ah yes, job fantasy in a gameplay/balance thread..

Drg jumps are normally way too important for your dps rotation to hold for gapclosing purposes. Elusive jump is the worst gapcloser of all meeles by far. (Yes, i've noticed you put "should" in italic, but i felt the need to mention it since you apparently have no clue what you're talking about)

Shukuchi is arguably the best meele gap closer by far! It's always available, since it doesn't have to be used in a burst window and is omnidirectional, pixelperfect, without needing a target. The value of it is just insane. (without costing a resource)

Not only is it extremely good for your own uptime, it can also help teammates get more uptime without sacrifice of own dps (for example, shiva junction, being in a light party with a tank that wants to dash in without sliding) and is one of the best tools to save messed up mechanics/entire pulls.

I would counter that this depends heavily on what platform you're using to play. For me on a controller, the amount of time it takes to aim the destination for the ninja move takes longer than if I just ran in on my own, and really only is useful if I have time away from the boss to set it up, which is less often now that mudras stack as it's a DPS gain to hang onto them for phases you have to disengage and use them then. With the current system, I'd counter that monk has the best gap closer since it also stacks, letting you leave one in reserve, losing only minimal DPS by using it for movement.

[Seraphor]

Ah yes, job fantasy in a gameplay/balance thread..

Drg jumps are normally way too important for your dps rotation to hold for gapclosing purposes. Elusive jump is the worst gapcloser of all meeles by far. (Yes, i've noticed you put "should" in italic, but i felt the need to mention it since you apparently have no clue what you're talking about)

Shukuchi is arguably the best meele gap closer by far! It's always available, since it doesn't have to be used in a burst window and is omnidirectional, pixelperfect, without needing a target. The value of it is just insane. (without costing a resource)

Not only is it extremely good for your own uptime, it can also help teammates get more uptime without sacrifice of own dps (for example, shiva junction, being in a light party with a tank that wants to dash in without sliding) and is one of the best tools to save messed up mechanics/entire pulls.

Simply giving Spineshatter Dive a couple of charges would make it available to use as a gap closer at any time, just like the tank/monk gap closers.
Then it's no longer a DPS loss to not use it all up, it's only a DPS loss to let the CD cap.
The system already exists, why doesn't the jumping job have access to it?
Why does the job that has SSS and Meditate have this instead?

Shukuchi is useless on controller, the time it takes to aim it and then use it, even the animation takes longer than any other gap closer, and comes with animation lock that no other gap closer has. You can't use it in battle, it will obliterate your rotation.

[VentVanitas]

Simply giving Spineshatter Dive a couple of charges would make it available to use as a gap closer at any time, just like the tank/monk gap closers.
Then it's no longer a DPS loss to not use it all up, it's only a DPS loss to let the CD cap.
The system already exists, why doesn't the jumping job have access to it?
Why does the job that has SSS and Meditate have this instead?

Shukuchi is useless on controller, the time it takes to aim it and then use it, even the animation takes longer than any other gap closer, and comes with animation lock that no other gap closer has. You can't use it in battle, it will obliterate your rotation.

I think a compromise could be met halfway if Elusive Jump was a forward dash instead of a backstep. Could be used as easily as DNC's En Avant and it spares controller users the pain of having to turn around to use it first, plus since it doesn't do damage it'd be far more available than Spineshatter. Better than having more oGCD damage filler clutter on DRG with another gap-closer charge if you ask me.

[Pyitoechito]

Monk honestly has better disengage mechanics with Meditation and Six-Sided Star than just having a (terrible) ranged attack. If the disengage is long enough and chakra is maxed, then there's always Enlightenment followed by Meditation spam, or Anatman refresh buffs and keep them active.

Other than the point on person mentioned about the niche of solo pulling mobs in PotD, Melee ranged attack weaponskills suck. They do minimum potency, and more importantly they interrupt combos. Monk would of course benefit the most from a basic ranged attack because they would suffer no combo interruption because their combos are based on form buffs. Then again, do we really need to give Monk another skill that is only useful during disengage (alongside Six-Sided Star, Anatman, and Meditation)?

If anything, we should be fixing the problem with how bad melee (and tank) ranged attacks are currently. For Hyadelyn's sake, remove the combo interruption aspect of ranged attacks! I would LOVE to fill boss disengage time with low-potency ranged attacks without fear of losing my current combo.

To answer the topic: No, Monk does not need a low-potency, basic ranged attack when they already have three skills devoted to disengage.

But, since the range pulling thing for Deep Dungeon piques my interest, here's a solution: change The Forbidden Chakra to Chi Blast, a single-target ranged attack with the same potency as TFC (like dezzmont mentioned on page 5). Simple, easy, and doesn't increase bloat. Can even fire it during boss disengage.

[VentVanitas]

Monk honestly has better disengage mechanics with Meditation and Six-Sided Star than just having a (terrible) ranged attack. If the disengage is long enough and chakra is maxed, then there's always Enlightenment followed by Meditation spam, or Anatman refresh buffs and keep them active.

Other than the point on person mentioned about the niche of solo pulling mobs in PotD, Melee ranged attack weaponskills suck. They do minimum potency, and more importantly they interrupt combos. Monk would of course benefit the most from a basic ranged attack because they would suffer no combo interruption because their combos are based on form buffs. Then again, do we really need to give Monk another skill that is only useful during disengage (alongside Six-Sided Star, Anatman, and Meditation)?

If anything, we should be fixing the problem with how bad melee (and tank) ranged attacks are currently. For Hyadelyn's sake, remove the combo interruption aspect of ranged attacks! I would LOVE to fill boss disengage time with low-potency ranged attacks without fear of losing my current combo.

To answer the topic: No, Monk does not need a low-potency, basic ranged attack when they already have three skills devoted to disengage.

But, since the range pulling thing for Deep Dungeon piques my interest, here's a solution: change The Forbidden Chakra to Chi Blast, a single-target ranged attack with the same potency as TFC (like dezzmont mentioned on page 5). Simple, easy, and doesn't increase bloat. Can even fire it during boss disengage.

Under no circumstances should you be using Enlightenment in a disconnect situation lol, a considerable portion of damage contribution comes from Forbidden Chakra and wasting it on Enlightenment is always a DPS loss in a single target scenario. (Also it's only like 10 yalms so if you're close enough to use Enlightenment then you can probably greed TFC.) No disconnect in the game is long nor specific enough to warrant wasting 5 whole Chakras over Enlightenment.

[wereotter]

Simply giving Spineshatter Dive a couple of charges would make it available to use as a gap closer at any time, just like the tank/monk gap closers.
Then it's no longer a DPS loss to not use it all up, it's only a DPS loss to let the CD cap.
The system already exists, why doesn't the jumping job have access to it?
Why does the job that has SSS and Meditate have this instead?

Shukuchi is useless on controller, the time it takes to aim it and then use it, even the animation takes longer than any other gap closer, and comes with animation lock that no other gap closer has. You can't use it in battle, it will obliterate your rotation.

Or.... if it's meant to be a movement tool, they could take the damage potency off of the skill, maybe let it have a stun effect so that it mirrors the spine shatter name, and increase the potency of other skills to compensate.

[Pyitoechito]

Under no circumstances should you be using Enlightenment in a disconnect situation lol, a considerable portion of damage contribution comes from Forbidden Chakra and wasting it on Enlightenment is always a DPS loss in a single target scenario. (Also it's only like 10 yalms so if you're close enough to use Enlightenment then you can probably greed TFC.) No disconnect in the game is long nor specific enough to warrant wasting 5 whole Chakras over Enlightenment.

Yeah, I honestly can't think of one either. The only thing I can think of (which never happens) would be a significant disengage followed by boss transition where it becomes untargetable for a long enough time, but at that point TFC should have been used beforehand anyway (and that situation never happens).

Or.... if it's meant to be a movement tool, they could take the damage potency off of the skill, maybe let it have a stun effect so that it mirrors the spine shatter name, and increase the potency of other skills to compensate.

Dragoon already has a no-potency backflip, and most gap-closers deal damage and have charges nowadays.

Another (albeit dumb) idea, what if LNC/DRG had slightly wider attack range for all their melee skills simply by virtue of the fact that a lance/spear is a long weapon?

[SpeckledBurd]

Dragoon already has a no-potency backflip, and most gap-closers deal damage and have charges nowadays.

Another (albeit dumb) idea, what if LNC/DRG had slightly wider attack range for all their melee skills simply by virtue of the fact that a lance/spear is a long weapon?

If the topic is mobility, that's something that Monk needs more help with than a ranged attack frankly. Right now it's solidly the least mobile melee since it's the only one that lacks any sort of DPS free or even neutral movement skill. Dragoon can elusive jump even if Spineshatter and Dragonfire are down, Ninja can basically Shikuchi whenever it needs to, and Samurai has Gyoten and Yaten which recoup their Kenki cost as long as you're using them properly (Yaten would be better if enhanced Enpi shouldn't break combos and had a higher potency though IMO). Monk doesn't have anything nearly that flexible, it can Shoulder Tackle but there's a major incentive to use both charges in Riddle of Fire, and its disengage is ultimately just a sprint that requires perfect GCD timing.

Frankly I think it should have something like En Evant for a completely free movement action. A flash step directly forward would perfectly fit something that's supposed to be a high speed martial artist like Monk.

[Sorzai]

I think that Elixer Field should be a mid-ranged aoe attack rather than how it is now. For one, it gives a better visual who wouldn't want to shoot a Kamehameha?
But just curious why isn't meditation an OGCD? I find it hella annoying to build Chakra.