Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Dzian]

How often do you come across DF groups that fall apart due to being unable to finish content? I can't even remember the last time I saw a DF group disband.

One could argue a hell of a lot. Its the reason noone ever runs extreme primals or such content in the duty finder or even the raid finder.over here in the west we avoid it like the plague specific because 99% of groups that used it fell apart.

And in some cases still do. Especially when a bunch of mentors get said extreme trials in there mentor roulettes. The response is usually go unsync it...

The tools given to us aren't bad. All you need to do is look at the jp side where you the duty finder and raid finder tools are infinitely more successful. Even for Savage and extreme level content. The problem on the West is us. The players.

You do still groups fall apart for normal content to. Though it normally the trials and raid side of things..

[Saefinn]

I don't see that ever working, both technically or in-practice. Matchmaking barely works in PvP based games - and they have to have a population to support it. Like I said, and others said, if it's really that bad just try and do content with preformed parties, otherwise you get what you get. Leave or kick.

Case in point, I'm not a great FPS player, I'm an RPG nerd at heart and there's not many FPS's I enjoy playing. My friend who plays Overwatch, which is a game that does this, he is really good at playing FPS games, pretty slick at it. We join him to play a match? Guess which noobs are getting matched with non-noobs? Us noobs. Because we committed the crime of wanting to play with a friend in a game of a genre we don't play a lot of. Whilst it is crazy to measure a person's skill because it's difficultly to do accurately, it ends up falling flat when friends want to play together. How much gitting gud would I have had to have gotten in a game I played for fun with friends for any of those matches to have been fair? Probably a lot.

That is the issue. That gameplay design is not sustainable, sometimes the strong cannot carry the weak nor should they. It's a corner SE has backed themselves into by relying on good players to always pick up the slack for the not good players. It can only go on for so long.

I'm sorry but listen to yourself on this.

Of course the gameplay design is sustainable. A Realm Reborn came out in 2013, the game has only increased in popularity since. And has been pinching people from the most popular game in the genre and it's not showing any signs of losing sustainability. It just doesn't suit people with certain attitudes, which hey, it's no skin off my nose if they're put off. Because I think it's better to have a community that helps each other improve and is welcoming to new and inexperience players than gate keeping content or putting them down for not doing things they way somebody else deems correct.

Yes, there's people other there who take help badly and people who give it badly. But you're being too hyperbolic about it all. The community is fine, it has probably in places, and they can be dealt with as they come, if ToS is an issue, report them.

For sure there's things devs can do better, but what they are doing is working very well for the sustainably.

[Caurcas]

I'm sorry but listen to yourself on this.

Of course the gameplay design is sustainable. A Realm Reborn came out in 2013, the game has only increased in popularity since. And has been pinching people from the most popular game in the genre and it's not showing any signs of losing sustainability. It just doesn't suit people with certain attitudes, which hey, it's no skin off my nose if they're put off. Because I think it's better to have a community that helps each other improve and is welcoming to new and inexperience players than gate keeping content or putting them down for not doing things they way somebody else deems correct.

Yes, there's people other there who take help badly and people who give it badly. But you're being too hyperbolic about it all. The community is fine, it has probably in places, and they can be dealt with as they come, if ToS is an issue, report them.

For sure there's things devs can do better, but what they are doing is working very well for the sustainably.

It's not though. How many times have they adjusted the jobs and gameplay systems to try and bring the skill ceiling and floor closer together? How many times have they dumbed down/simplified a job to make it more "accessible"? Furthermore, I am not gatekeeping (not that that is a bad thing). I am just wanting a space where all the freestyle SAMs, tanks stricken with "tankiety" and "pure" healers can all play in harmony together...away from me.

[Awha]

It really depends on how you define helping the community get good. For the most part each NN I have been part of people operate on the standard if you can clear the content you are doing fine.

The sad thing is the barrier to clear normal mode content is so low one really does not have to learn how to play unless you really end up with 8 complete newbies and have no idea what they are doing. Which is extremely uncommon.

This community is healthy afraid of anything being difficult. Any time SE pushes the boundary in normal content people complain that it is too hard.

[StriderShinryu]

I am just wanting a space where all the freestyle SAMs, tanks stricken with "tankiety" and "pure" healers can all play in harmony together...away from me.

I mean, there is though. Create your own parties in your own community and avoid random match making. If playing with the bads and randoms bothers you as much as it seems to, you have complete control over that.

[Vinupra-Rosa]

It's not though. How many times have they adjusted the jobs and gameplay systems to try and bring the skill ceiling and floor closer together? How many times have they dumbed down/simplified a job to make it more "accessible"? Furthermore, I am not gatekeeping (not that that is a bad thing). I am just wanting a space where all the freestyle SAMs, tanks stricken with "tankiety" and "pure" healers can all play in harmony together...away from me.

Then -as has been said several times- run duties as a premade party. Simple, easy solution to all your woes that does not involve hurting the 'weak' unnecessarily. And you are gatekeeping, and on a super basic concept that should be open to all and is part of the game's core gameplay. THAT is a bad thing.

[LianaThorne]

I mean, there is though. Create your own parties in your own community and avoid random match making. If playing with the bads and randoms bothers you as much as it seems to, you have complete control over that.

Literally this. If you don't want to run with randoms then create your own community of people you run with and do content with. I'm not sure why you want the game to adjust to you when you are plenty capable of making the kind of group you want right now.

[Saefinn]

It's not though. How many times have they adjusted the jobs and gameplay systems to try and bring the skill ceiling and floor closer together? How many times have they dumbed down/simplified a job to make it more "accessible"? Furthermore, I am not gatekeeping (not that that is a bad thing). I am just wanting a space where all the freestyle SAMs, tanks stricken with "tankiety" and "pure" healers can all play in harmony together...away from me.

But there is a place you can go to get away from them and that's the Party Finder. It's probably your best bet. And maybe also find friends willing to run content with. But you get to put out certain requirements of who can join your party and advertise to the kind of people you need. Sure it's not the perfect solution, but TBH I doubt you'll find one.

But I regularly invite friends to roulettes and queueing for stuff.

Duty Finder is a roulette and should be looked at as such. You'll get anybody of any skill or philosophy. If it's too much for you to get the odd bad run then I feel like forming your own party might be the best thing for you, like we did in MMO's in the old days before concepts like Duty Finders existed. The odd bad run I feel is the price of convenience.


We're gonna get all kinds of people and they'll do the best to accommodate them all the best they can. I'm just generally of the view they should be able to accept the other exists and I find most of the time people do.

Yes, sometimes I think they make bad decisions to accommodate the other and they end up having to correct their own mistakes. But for all of my healer complaints, as an example, I'm still here and I'm still paying a sub and I'm still one of my FC's healers. I just limit what content I heal unless I'm giving somebody a queue boost. Hence my point of them always being able to do better and improve things, but ultimately, financially and in terms of player base, they're doing fantastically well with the model they have. They salvaged a game that was a huge flop on release and is now one of the most successful MMO's of all time.

[Caurcas]

It's not an odd bad run. A good 50-60% of all my DF roulettes have one or more players massively underperforming. Maybe I am just unlucky I dunno.

[Coletergeist]

It's not an odd bad run. A good 50-60% of all my DF roulettes have one or more players massively underperforming. Maybe I am just unlucky I dunno.

Or you have a skewed vision of what 'massively' underperforming is? Also, it's DF.