Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Keramory]

Why in gods name do you people think everyone play this game the same way as you. You want to know the nice thing about FF14 compared to WoW? I can get a nice set of gear, see the content and not have to deal with hardcore raiders or pvp'rs.

Not everyone is playing FF14 to savage raid or do Ultimates. Why does it matter to you that people are doing Glamour in FF14 as their end game? Are they happy? I would take FF14's end game gearing system over ANY other MMO's end game gearing any day of the week.

If you want to know why these people are "idiots" then look in the mirror. FF14 actively discourages joining FC's and forming really guilds because of this horrible static system this MMO has from a period of time when it was dying. You would NEVER talk to a guildmate the way I see people talk in FF14 in Savage. You would be kicked for toxicity and held accountable by a guild leader.

I think you may have misunderstood that my 1 was connected to 2. If I wrote it that way I do meaningfully apologize. That was not the intention.

I don't think you're an "idiot" for enjoying glamming up and sitting in town. 2 was meant to be an isolated problem we have as a community because of everything I mentioned in 2, not 1. It was simply meant to be put... there isn't true social repercussions in the community for being an idiot due to its size, instances and cross servers. That's all. An idiot in my mind is someone who acts poorly to others. Thats it. Has nothing to do with how you spend your time in game.

Now the part I have a feeling you may not like is I do stand behind my number 1. People are clearly so bored in an MMO with such a massive world that they're now just hunkering down and creating RP/ERP taverns. I blame that completely on there being little else to find interest in content wise after a few years on this game. I do think though that you're confusing me with some elite player who thinks savage is the only content worthy of dev attention. If you look at my game achievements you'll quickly find out I'm not that person lol. I just think there isn't much in terms of long goal progression of almost any kind in the game (traveling, leveling, gearing up, goals) and thats continuing to lead to crazier and crazier things were seeing in the forums now.

[Arillyn]

Now the part I have a feeling you may not like is I do stand behind my number 1. People are clearly so bored in an MMO with such a massive world that they're now just hunkering down and creating RP/ERP taverns. I blame that completely on there being little else to find interest in content wise after a few years on this game.

I blame the ERP taverns on some people who saw some Kotaku articles about someone who has a brothel and makes lots of gil with that and then were like "oh snap! I can do that too" even though it has nothing really to do with RP nor any content drought. It's about people thinking they can make a lot of gil by selling cyber sex.

Edit: On topic - if anyone is enabled it's because as someone said before - the game isn't always great about teaching some things in the game itself. Also, some people just have really bad days where nothing goes right. I know I have days like that. While I always do the best I can (I really try not to be a burden on my teammates in an encounter) there are days my coordination is just completely off.

[Keramory]

I blame the ERP taverns on some people wo saw some Kotaku articles about someone who has a brothel and makes lots of gil with that and then were like "oh snap! I can do that too" even though it has nothing really to do with RP nor any content drought. It's about people thinking they can make a lot of gil by selling cyber sex.

That's definitely part of it. Kind of mentioned the same thing in another thread about the topic. We're not even talking about RP for the most part anymore. It's just a way to make "quick cash". At the same time though, least most servers I've been on, gil really isn't all that important or difficult to come by. I do think on some level people are enjoying their pretend hostess/barkeep work or w.e. To which I'd argue if we had more to do in game that wasn't over in a week of doing it, people would be a lot more occupied with other things then playing essentially IMVU with better graphics.

[Arillyn]

That's definitely part of it. Kind of mentioned the same thing in another thread about the topic. We're not even talking about RP for the most part anymore. It's just a way to make "quick cash". At the same time though, least most servers I've been on, gil really isn't all that important or difficult to come by. I do think on some level people are enjoying their pretend hostess/barkeep work or w.e. To which I'd argue if we had more to do in game that wasn't over in a week of doing it, people would be a lot more occupied with other things then playing essentially IMVU with better graphics.

Could be. And while gil isn't hard to get - I can't tell you how many people I know who have no idea how to make it and think having $500k gil is a big deal.

[Keramory]

Could be. And while gil isn't hard to get - I can't tell you how many people I know who have no idea how to make it and think having $500k gil is a big deal.

I completely believe you, and granted I've been playing since 1.0 alpha but... that's just so bizarre to me. I do literally nothing to make gil in this game, spend it like an idiot, have a wife of whom is convinced I have endless pockets, and still sitting on millions. Hate. HATE tome farming duties with a passion and will never pass mentor because of it, but that gives so much money over time everything else doesn't seem worth doing for gil lol. That and I like my treasure hunts, even if I never need the items. Just the gil from those suckers for existing in a party. Whew.

[Arillyn]

I completely believe you, and granted I've been playing since 1.0 alpha but... that's just so bizarre to me. I do literally nothing to make gil in this game, spend it like an idiot, have a wife of whom is convinced I have endless pockets, and still sitting on millions. Hate. HATE tome farming duties with a passion and will never pass mentor because of it, but that gives so much money over time everything else doesn't seem worth doing for gil lol. That and I like my treasure hunts, even if I never need the items. Just the gil from those suckers for existing in a party. Whew.

Heh it's bizarre to me as well. I've been playing since 1.0 and remember when making gil could be quite the challenge at different times in this game's history. Now it's so easy I just don't understand when people complain they can't make gil, even after I've given them the many tips of all the different ways you can in the game that don't even have anything to do with gathering or crafting. The game throws gil at you now!

[Puremallace]

Now the part I have a feeling you may not like is I do stand behind my number 1. People are clearly so bored in an MMO with such a massive world that they're now just hunkering down and creating RP/ERP taverns.

I think you are forgetting what is going on outside. If you live in America everything was effectively locked down for over a year. If you live in India or other places death is all around you. People are doing these activities to escape what has categorically been the worst year most of us have ever been through.

If that is what they enjoy then more power to them. From what I have learned with FF14 is that when you do not gate the gear behind some RNG garbage then people will create other forms of end game that involve interacting with other people. This is how MMO's used to be before developers realized they could milk you for game time if they put gear and skill power behind time gated RNG garbage.

Next patch lands with a new raid tier and that 500 gear you got is already trashed and replaced by 510 crafted.... its one reason many players don't bother raiding because "whats the point?"

This statement makes no sense when 530 gear exist and is better that that 510 gear. People do not raid nearly as heavily in FF14 for the original reason I listed that FC's do not serve the same purpose of organizing people into coordinated groups like guilds do in multiple other MMO's.

You can get up to 520 at your sweet slow pace and avoid dealing with the Savages/Ultimates that takes the idea of community in this MMO and throws it in the nearest dumpster. In that place it becomes about parses and literal god like perfect rotations for 15+ min fights with heavy reliance of measuring a players worth by their ACT parse vs what they contribute to a group.

Even one of the streamers who makes a lot of the guides talks down to a lot of people in this community and suggest ideas about making it so you cannot even do boss damage unless you are doing perfect rotations. She then gets confused why her stream is not growing passed a small niche of people.

If I wanted that toxic community I would install WeakAuras, RaiderIO and multiple other Adds on and go back to WoW but I stay here because a majority of this community rejects the ideology of elitism that is literally killing other MMO's.

[Keramory]

I think you are forgetting what is going on outside. If you live in America everything was effectively locked down for over a year. If you live in India or other places death is all around you. People are doing these activities to escape what has categorically been the worst year most of us have ever been through.

Well I can promise you I didn't forget about Covid lol. There's definitely an argument that more people are joining MMOs and spending more time in them because of Covid... but what they're doing in those games is still dependent on the content within it. I don't think Covid alone is an answer to people creating ERP taverns suddenly unless someone is under the impression a bunch of hip clubsters who were spending every Sat getting busy and now relying on au'ra chats to feed their frustrations.

[IDontPetLalas]

I think you are forgetting what is going on outside. If you live in America everything was effectively locked down for over a year. If you live in India or other places death is all around you. People are doing these activities to escape what has categorically been the worst year most of us have ever been through.

If that is what they enjoy then more power to them. From what I have learned with FF14 is that when you do not gate the gear behind some RNG garbage then people will create other forms of end game that involve interacting with other people. This is how MMO's used to be before developers realized they could milk you for game time if they put gear and skill power behind time gated RNG garbage.



This statement makes no sense when 530 gear exist and is better that that 510 gear. People do not raid nearly as heavily in FF14 for the original reason I listed that FC's do not serve the same purpose of organizing people into coordinated groups like guilds do in multiple other MMO's.

You can get up to 520 at your sweet slow pace and avoid dealing with the Savages/Ultimates that takes the idea of community in this MMO and throws it in the nearest dumpster. In that place it becomes about parses and literal god like perfect rotations for 15+ min fights with heavy reliance of measuring a players worth by their ACT parse vs what they contribute to a group.

Even one of the streamers who makes a lot of the guides talks down to a lot of people in this community and suggest ideas about making it so you cannot even do boss damage unless you are doing perfect rotations. She then gets confused why her stream is not growing passed a small niche of people.

If I wanted that toxic community I would install WeakAuras, RaiderIO and multiple other Adds on and go back to WoW but I stay here because a majority of this community rejects the ideology of elitism that is literally killing other MMO's.

I could list games that have been around for years - good games- but are being killed due to such overwhelming RNG that communities that existed for 10+ years have given up- and these were solid communities, with well-known FC/guild/legions that relied upon social interaction. Never-ending gear treadmills are no substitute for actual content - whether it is PVE or (my preference ) PVE and PVP.

Regarding that streamer? Before we go the route of demanding perfect rotations - have we already forgotten Wildstar? we really should think about the 80/20 rule. I "m not saying to leave out Ultimate raiders by any means- however think long and hard about what the majority of players has shown they are interested and capable of doing. Sure, the bar could go a bit higher, but only if SE helps the players along the way - whether its via new player tutorials, better tooltips, etc.