6.0 Story Speculations

[KizuyaKatogami]

Hydaelyn was a later development they knew nothing about when making their choice, comparing the two it's still.

Sacrificing life to save other life.
Vs
Changing everyone's future.

The ironworks still had no idea if they'd make things better or worse, but enough people agreed a world with us was worth it and with how things had gone that we'd likely lead to a better outcome. On the other hand the convocation were simply killing newly spawned life to return their own, they were in no immediate danger and these people willingly died to save the world, their society was built of debating and deliberating but they did neither they'd averted disaster at a great cost and they'd now come for an exchange. Those against this questioned if the world shouldn't be left to this new life, that implies they're sentient as they'd need to be if they were to take over the Amaurotine's role, but the convocation just wanted all they'd lost back, again at their core you can compare them as both people suffered a calamity that brought their worlds to the brink, the different however is where these choices were made and why, the 8th timeline was in ruins and wasn't sure if they'd recover or if what they had left was recoverable. the Amaurotines had actually made it past their crisis and had in place a solution, at least for the moment things were stable and the world was on the mend, in that moment they chose to sacrifice new life without giving it the choice to return their loved ones who did have a choice.

Changing the future couldn’t sacrificed life though(and arguably did). We don’t know if they were in immediate danger, there were many unknowns at the time.The amaurotines weren’t sure if the danger was gone completely or not either. It’s similar cases for both.

[Kesey]

How is committing genocide multiple times ensure a better future? What's wrong with the state of the world after Zodiark saved the world and new lives flourishes? The future would be better if the ancients became friends and guardians to the new lives so they could make a better future together

I think the issue at hand is a problem presented in two parts. First, we know the convocation was tempered to Zodiark (Emet gives this evidence in Shadowbringers) and second, Venat and followers had to summon Hydaelyn because Zodiark didn't actually fix the end days, he delayed it so a more permanent solution was needed (as per 5.2).

[Anonymoose]

I think the issue at hand is a problem presented in two parts. First, we know the convocation was tempered to Zodiark (Emet gives this evidence in Shadowbringers) and second, Venat and followers had to summon Hydaelyn because Zodiark didn't actually fix the end days, he delayed it so a more permanent solution was needed (as per 5.2).

This is where most of the possibilities I'm working with are, as well.

The first being, we know Hydaelyn's summoners "sacrificed their life energies" to summon Hydaelyn, which in theory may take them off the board for tempering if they're gone and not just temporarily drained. Though, with the Twelve still a big ??? in our background lore, I do wonder if She found a way to bring them back. (If nothing else, as the sundered champions numbering Twelve that history claims to remember Her choosing in several eras.) But it might just be how SE dodges Hydaelyn tempering anybody and then leaving them out in the open. (But then how was there an "Age of the Gods" until the First Umbral Era? Please look forward to it.)

And Venat's "this only delays the inevitable" thing has me wondering which was the bigger threat. If Zodiark was merely as big of a threat as the Final Days once all factors were considered, that makes sundering Him at all costs a devastating sacrifice, no matter how necessary, and it leaves the door open for it to have been one interpretation. I, too, am wondering if it only delayed the Final Days itself. We know that the Final Days caused creation magicks to run amok, so the question is was sundering everyone the only way to stop it?

That opens the door for a lot of going easy on Venat/Hydaelyn if that's what the developers wanted. She "had no choice," she was "just giving life a chance," and, to go full darksteelfoil hat, it might even explain why She didn't want to risk giving people with the Echo enough information they might inadvertently awaken their past identities.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Venat and followers had to summon Hydaelyn because Zodiark didn't actually fix the end days, he delayed it so a more permanent solution was needed (as per 5.2).

Again though, this isn’t confirmed. This is based on something Venat(already suspicious name) says. She could be lying. My question is how would she know? We see one conversation and people automatically take it as fact lmao.

[Theodric]

I'm reminded of this particular nugget from a past lore Q&A session:



The Sundering has never really been framed as a good or necessary thing. It could have be an accident or it could have been a deliberate act...we simply do not know.

[BlitzAceRush]

Again while they said this, outside of Ascian meddling we see no signs of this instability, the shards and the source seems to function perfectly fine, there's not massive disasters or world ending events. So while that may be their intent, until it's shown as of right now, the shards, source and her people only have the Ascian's to blame for slamming shards into them and destroying shards and killing all the people on them.

As for the Sundering, I doubt many would argue on it's own that it's a good thing, but weather it was an accident of their battle or simply how her powers were designed to best him, it created a set of worlds with people on them and they are doing fine, given that the sound didn't just gobble up all the shards and the source, either the sundering, Zodiark, Hydaelyn or some combination of all of it kept it at bay, so outside of the Ascian's wanting their world back, there's no evidence the sundering hurt anything.

And until there is it comes back to who's lives matter more, which is what they showed in 5.0, it was all about perspective, we on the source and shards, like living and would rather not be killed. The Ascians liked their world better, believed their way and life trumps ours and want it back, even if it costs them every living thing on every shard and the source. To us, they were a powerful people who faced a horrible fate, but had their time and should let us have ours, they need to let go. To them, we're a mistake that doesn't even count as life, so all there're doing is correcting a mistake, so long as they can hold this justification nothing they do is really wrong.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Again while they said this, outside of Ascian meddling we see no signs of this instability, the shards and the source seems to function perfectly fine, there's not massive disasters or world ending events. So while that may be their intent, until it's shown as of right now, the shards, source and her people only have the Ascian's to blame for slamming shards into them and destroying shards and killing all the people on them.

As for the Sundering, I doubt many would argue on it's own that it's a good thing, but weather it was an accident of their battle or simply how her powers were designed to best him, it created a set of worlds with people on them and they are doing fine, given that the sound didn't just gobble up all the shards and the source, either the sundering, Zodiark, Hydaelyn or some combination of all of it kept it at bay, so outside of the Ascian's wanting their world back, there's no evidence the sundering hurt anything.

And until there is it comes back to who's lives matter more, which is what they showed in 5.0, it was all about perspective, we on the source and shards, like living and would rather not be killed. The Ascians liked their world better, believed their way and life trumps ours and want it back, even if it costs them every living thing on every shard and the source. To us, they were a powerful people who faced a horrible fate, but had their time and should let us have ours, they need to let go. To them, we're a mistake that doesn't even count as life, so all there're doing is correcting a mistake, so long as they can hold this justification nothing they do is really wrong.

No evidence that sundering hurt anything? Look at soul density. Look at the difference in potential of the sundered individuals. Their loss of memories of who they once were. The lives ended due to mortal illnesses and age. Are you serious?

[BlitzAceRush]

No evidence that sundering hurt anything? Look at soul density. Look at the difference in potential of the sundered individuals. Their loss of memories of who they once were. The lives ended due to mortal illnesses and age. Are you serious?

That's all perspective, the life that exists now is different life than that of the Ancients, but being different or weaker doesn't mean you are less deserving of life.
Should the Viera wipe out the Hyur and take their lands because they live longer, thus making them more deserving? Should the Garlean's be wiped out due to their inability to use magic?
Just because the races that are alive now are not as hardy or ever lasting as the pervious, makes them no less worthy of life, and they are still capable despite this, the people at the 8th timeline were able to surprise Emet in what they pulled off and in may works of fiction the idea of immortality Vs mortality is often explored where both sides have merit, living forever can be a curse as well as a blessing and while the races of today in 14 grow old, get sick and die, they lay the foundation for those who walk after.

The question was, "Has the sundering caused any instability or harm?" The answers is no, we've been shown no evidence that the sundering itself has caused anything to go wrong, all it did was spllit everything and by extinction weaken everything by a factor of 14, but the 13 shards and the source functioned perfectly fine afterwards, and likely would still be fine had several of them not been destroyed, two of them near irreparably damaged and many calamities visited upon the source.

Which brings us back around to the Ascian's have nothing noble about their goal, they just want their world back, which is totally fine, it's a perfectly acceptable and relatable motivation, they lost their world and they want it back, but they're not "saving" us or the planet it's just plain survival, ours or theirs and we won.

[JahD]

It just me but anyone here think the The Final Day just got delay?

[Theodric]

Although some of the morality aspects involved are a matter of perspective, the Sundering itself has - by the writers own words as linked above - been portrayed as a negative act. It made people weaker and fostered more inequality.

For example, most Garleans are unable to manipulate aether altogether and some areas, such as Eorzea, are infused with disproportionate amounts of aether. In turn, this led to more war and strife over resources and opportunities. There is also the element of consent. By Venat's own admission, Venat's group were a minority among the Ancients. Their people had been through so much, with countless losses in the form of willing sacrifices and the demise of those who perished in the Final Days.

Yet rather than be granted the opportunity to remember their fallen and spend time with what loved ones remained...the Sundering forcibly separated them. Imagine being forcibly separated from a spouse? Forced to forget your parents and grandparents? A beloved pet? All those precious memories destroyed and ripped apart, fragmented into vague recollections of what once was.

Given how important the theme of remembrance is shown to be elsewhere and the simple fact that the Warrior of Darkness made a promise to Emet-Selch to remember the Ancients...it'll be very interesting to see what, if anything, Venat/Hydaelyn has to say about that.

The reins of history cannot truly be placed into the hands of man until the history of the world is revealed, in full and false deities are exposed as such.