6.0 Story Speculations

[BlitzAceRush]

WE dont know if Zodiark was a permanent solution though. He couldve been. Our only source otherwise is Venat who seems to be making decisons more out of fear than anything else. I dont see it as having their cake and eating it when we literally did the same thing in the alternate timeline to bring back those we had lost.

I'm not saying if he was or wasn't I'm saying if he was, great they had it, if he wasn't they bought themselves time to look for one, but they didn't, they went straight to trying to get back all they'd lost before they'd dealt with the issue.
And we were dead, as for the Ironworks of the 8th, while they had a lot of opposition at first, that shifted heavily once the plan changed to saving us, in addition it's not the same, they wanted to revert history and return everyone, themselves included to an earlier point in time, yes that would change things, some people born after that point would be gone, but given the devastation a lot more would be brought back, so comparable in end goals but not in method or morality.
If time worked how they thought, everything would have just gone back to the divergence point, everyone in the "WoL died" timeline is now gone and their counterparts in the new timeline would continue on unaware of anything.

On the other hand, the Convocation wanted to take this new sentient life and kill it to bring their friends who willingly died to save the planet back.
For the Ironworks plan to equate it would have to have been, "We're saving the WoL, but to power our time tower we need to kill a bunch of people and use their Aether, they also won't come back if we succeed."
Except they didn't, one plan was trying to rewrite history in hopes of a better outcome, everyone was effected equally.
The other wanted to take one set of life, kill it to save another set of life, one group wins, the other loses. Cake and eat it.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I'm not saying if he was or wasn't I'm saying if he was, great they had it, if he wasn't they bought themselves time to look for one, but they didn't, they went straight to trying to get back all they'd lost before they'd dealt with the issue.
And we were dead, as for the Ironworks of the 8th, while they had a lot of opposition at first, that shifted heavily once the plan changed to saving us, in addition it's not the same, they wanted to revert history and return everyone, themselves included to an earlier point in time, yes that would change things, some people born after that point would be gone, but given the devastation a lot more would be brought back, so comparable in end goals but not in method or morality.
If time worked how they thought, everything would have just gone back to the divergence point, everyone in the "WoL died" timeline is now gone and their counterparts in the new timeline would continue on unaware of anything.

On the other hand, the Convocation wanted to take this new sentient life and kill it to bring their friends who willingly died to save the planet back.
For the Ironworks plan to equate it would have to have been, "We're saving the WoL, but to power our time tower we need to kill a bunch of people and use their Aether, they also won't come back if we succeed."
Except they didn't, one plan was trying to rewrite history in hopes of a better outcome, everyone was effected equally.
The other wanted to take one set of life, kill it to save another set of life, one group wins, the other loses. Cake and eat it.

I dont remember if they actually confirm it was sentient life or not. If they dont well then this is just assumptions. As for the ironworks comparison though, they were willing of basically erasing their timeline(and the people born in it) to mess with the past and bring us back. The ancients sought to bring their loved ones back in hope of ensuring a better future and to restore things. Same overall concept. People lose in both scenarios but one is subjectively better than the other in that it wouldve prevented the eventual sundering if there wasnt an opposing faction based off of fear.

[Yuella]

The ancients sought to bring their loved ones back in hope of ensuring a better future and to restore things.

How is committing genocide multiple times ensure a better future? What's wrong with the state of the world after Zodiark saved the world and new lives flourishes? The future would be better if the ancients became friends and guardians to the new lives so they could make a better future together

[BlitzAceRush]

I dont remember if they actually confirm it was sentient life or not. If they dont well then this is just assumptions. As for the ironworks comparison though, they were willing of basically erasing their timeline(and the people born in it) to mess with the past and bring us back. The ancients sought to bring their loved ones back in hope of ensuring a better future and to restore things. Same overall concept. People lose in both scenarios but one is subjectively better than the other in that it wouldve prevented the eventual sundering if there wasnt an opposing faction based off of fear.

Hydaelyn was a later development they knew nothing about when making their choice, comparing the two it's still.

Sacrificing life to save other life.
Vs
Changing everyone's future.

The ironworks still had no idea if they'd make things better or worse, but enough people agreed a world with us was worth it and with how things had gone that we'd likely lead to a better outcome. On the other hand the convocation were simply killing newly spawned life to return their own, they were in no immediate danger and these people willingly died to save the world, their society was built of debating and deliberating but they did neither they'd averted disaster at a great cost and they'd now come for an exchange. Those against this questioned if the world shouldn't be left to this new life, that implies they're sentient as they'd need to be if they were to take over the Amaurotine's role, but the convocation just wanted all they'd lost back, again at their core you can compare them as both people suffered a calamity that brought their worlds to the brink, the different however is where these choices were made and why, the 8th timeline was in ruins and wasn't sure if they'd recover or if what they had left was recoverable. the Amaurotines had actually made it past their crisis and had in place a solution, at least for the moment things were stable and the world was on the mend, in that moment they chose to sacrifice new life without giving it the choice to return their loved ones who did have a choice.

[BlitzAceRush]

How is committing genocide multiple times ensure a better future? What's wrong with the state of the world after Zodiark saved the world and new lives flourishes? The future would be better if the ancients became friends and guardians to the new lives so they could make a better future together

That is also a fair point, though we are "told" the sundering made the world unstable most all the damage is Ascian made, the calamites? Ascian. The many wars and strife? Ascian. The loss of the 13th? Ascian the almost flood of the 1st? Ascian. It's easy for them to call us unworthy and all we do is kill each other, when their the ones dropping bombs on one nation then tell the other nation it was that other nation who did it. Of course with free will some people will do horrible things, but it's been revealed that most of the worst sins of the sundered were actually orchestrated or straight up caused by the unsoldered.

It's why Emet's big speech during the end of 5.0 rung hollow for me, while I understood and sympathised with the Emet of 12000 years ago who watch everything he cared about die, but you've been killing, torturing and brining suffering to people for thousands of years, you don't get to talk down to me about being "unworthy"

[Theodric]

The Ascians did not immediately seek to rejoin the Sundered worlds and sow chaos. They first attempted to understand the Sundered and live alongside them - but found them wanting due to their behaviour and actions. I'd also assume that alternative methods of restoring the Source to what it once was were pursued but ultimately only the Rejoining plan proved to be something that would work.

[BlitzAceRush]

The Ascians did not immediately seek to rejoin the Sundered worlds and sow chaos. They first attempted to understand the Sundered and live alongside them - but found them wanting due to their behaviour and actions. I'd also assume that alternative methods of restoring the Source to what it once was were pursued but ultimately only the Rejoining plan proved to be something that would work.

Which I don't buy, take our world right now, it is far from perfect but if I came from a different world that existed before it, and claimed I could find nothing of value here it's because I didn't want to find anything. Even during Emet's speech he had some people in front of him who proved that "broken" as he believed them to be, the sundered can be good people, seek to do good and follow through, but he pretty much replied with "not good enough" Part of him wanted us to be good enough, but they also wanted their world and loved ones back, so they set a bar we couldn't reach.

Then it returns to, was there even a reason? I've yet to see any of the "instability" they speak of, the world and shards seem to trundle along perfectly fine in their sundered state, all the damage and calamities are done by the Ascians so outside of them wanting their world back, they have no reason to be doing what they're doing. Perhaps they had a leg to stand on back then, morally questionable as that leg was, but after the sundering, they lost any footing they had, it's no longer about killing some "new primordial just spawned life" suddenly you have 13 shards and the source worth of sentient people and their plan involves causing huge amounts of suffering, killing and ultimately the destruction of the shards these people call home, each time the source is rocked with a calamity in addition to all the chaos and strife they cause there. Countless generations will suffer this pain until only those who survived all that on the source remain, and what's their reward? they too will die.

All this because they want their loved ones back, because they want the world back to the way it was for them, because they think it's better that way with the only justification of "You're not like us, so you don't count as life, so I can do what I want to you" They'll have killed 1000 of times what they'll be bringing back. I sympathised with the unsundered, but they lose all of it the moment they started down this path, they're not trying to save the word, they just want something and don't care what they have to do to get it.

[Yuella]

They first attempted to understand the Sundered and live alongside them - but found them wanting due to their behaviour and actions.

What behaviour and actions would that be? Sounds like cultural differences. If you can't accept them, tolerate them. If you can't tolerate them, at least leave them alone and not kill them.

[KizuyaKatogami]

How is committing genocide multiple times ensure a better future? What's wrong with the state of the world after Zodiark saved the world and new lives flourishes? The future would be better if the ancients became friends and guardians to the new lives so they could make a better future together

Uh, well first of all barring the times it was necessary for them to sacrifice for the star to 100% be safe, they had only planned one more sacrifice. You say that for certain, that they could make a better future together but we don’t know the specifics. The sound could have still been there and could’ve risen up again. Idk where you’re getting multiple times from.

[KizuyaKatogami]

What behaviour and actions would that be? Sounds like cultural differences. If you can't accept them, tolerate them. If you can't tolerate them, at least leave them alone and not kill them.

The sundered are existing at the expense of their loved ones and family. They’re literally fractured beings of people they knew. It isn’t just cultural differences lmao, it’s abnormal/unnatural and poses a threat to the world as a whole.